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Where have all the insects gone?

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#61

Post by revolvingocelot »

farias0 wrote: post #50
missedthecue wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the government had nationalised industry, these bugs would be alive?

I mean, probably? If we had elected good officials at least. I'm not defending socialism at all, but if you accept the fact that this kind of thing happens because there's no monetary incentive for the industry to avoid it, then the logical conclusion is that under a system not motivated by profit this would be less likely to happen. But what I'm sure you are aware of this line of thinking. What is the argument again…

Lots of downvoting, as you're about to find out. For some reason, HN really really hates the idea that there's enormous monetary incentive to ignore existential problems caused by modern capitalism.

Probably because, as Jeff Hammerbacher said, "the best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks."

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#62

Post by ashtonkem »

nickff wrote: post #44
ashtonkem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s enough contradictory information here to make clear ideological statements like that indefensible. The late USSR was far dirtier than America of the same period, yes, but neither can hold a candle to pre-EPA America or late industrial revolution England. Heck, London had a coal smoke smog in 1952 that killed 10-12K people in a week. Regardless, I find this discussion to be an unwelcome diversion. The…

North Korea and Cuba have been disasters, and I think you're wrong about the USSR being cleaner than pre-EPA USA. China has been a mess throughout its self-professed communist history as well; you may dispute its degree of communism, but it certainly has more nationalized industries (of the sort proposed in parent comments) than the USA or any other 'capitalist' country.

I see you’re more interested in hashing out the communism vs. capitalism thing. I am not. Frankly it’s the internet’s most overwrought and under productive argument.

All I want to see is industries pay according to the impact that they have on society. This isn’t an inherently socialistic idea, but it would require a change in the way that we currently conceive of capitalism[0].

0 - Economists generally think that removing these externalities are good for the market. But this runs contrary to the anti-regulation attitude currently in vogue.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#63

Post by csmoak »

jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

I just drove across the US (down the east coast, across the south, up the Rockies) and found I had to do this only after driving across Texas.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#64

Post by brandonmenc »

jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

This also stopped being a problem for me in the 90s when I started driving my mom's Dodge Intrepid, which was significantly more aerodynamic than other cars of the era.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#65

Post by papito »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #49
jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

It's not like we were all driving in Chevrolet Bel Airs in the 90s and now switched to Lamborghinis.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#66

Post by goda90 »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #49
jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

I feel like this is something we could check with simulations. Given the same insect clouds, would an older car hit more of them than a newer one?

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#67

Post by trynumber9 »

thisiscorrect wrote: post #49
jerry1979 wrote: post #36

Anecdotally, while driving along Minnesota's segment of I94 in the '90s, one would have to stop and scrape the bugs off the front window and grill. Today, this is no longer a problem.

Could that be explained by improved aerodynamics of cars now compared to then? Has that been studied?

It also depends on the bugs spawning behavior. There are still species which blot out the sky when they spawn along the Mississippi.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#68

Post by subsubzero »

Maybe the author doesn't see insects as they are in a heavily populated city with exterminators everywhere. Down in Southern California I have seen more bees this past year than I have ever seen. A few things I do feel like I see alot less than I used to see is dragonflies and praying mantis. I remember as a kid I used to see so many of both, now I may see one or two a month(dragonflies), and praying mantis once or twice a year.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#69

Post by nickff »

ashtonkem wrote: post #62
nickff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korea and Cuba have been disasters, and I think you're wrong about the USSR being cleaner than pre-EPA USA. China has been a mess throughout its self-professed communist history as well; you may dispute its degree of communism, but it certainly has more nationalized industries (of the sort proposed in parent comments) than the USA or any other 'capitalist' country.

I see you’re more interested in hashing out the communism vs. capitalism thing. I am not. Frankly it’s the internet’s most overwrought and under productive argument. All I want to see is industries pay according to the impact that they have on society. This isn’t an inherently socialistic idea, but it would require a change in the way that we currently conceive of capitalism[0]. 0 - Economists generally think that re…

>"I see you’re more interested in hashing out the communism vs. capitalism thing."

No, I just think that most of your previous post was wrong.

edit: I see that you added to your post:

>"0 - Economists generally think that removing these externalities are good for the market. But this runs contrary to the anti-regulation attitude currently in vogue. "

Where have regulations decreased over the medium to long-term (5+ years)? I can't think of any (stable) country which has acted in an anti-regulatory way; do you have any specific examples?

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