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Where have all the insects gone?

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Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#31

Post by revolvingocelot »

DiffEq wrote: post #6
babycake wrote: post #3

[flagged]

@babycake I take it that you are making a dig at Western society as a whole or just the U.S.? I think if you took some time and traveled to some of the non-capitalist (Marxist) countries you might see the utter horrifical ecological damage that they are doing and have done to the world. I think if all told you might find that capitalist countries have done a better job with the environment - I am not saying they have…

There are no "Marxist" countries on the planet. I'm not sure there ever were. I think I understand what you're trying to say, but someone could very easily take what you wrote as the suggestion that there are two types of countries: "capitalist" and "non-capitalist (Marxist)". That's... you should actually read Marx, or decide on a less fraught descriptor.

For that matter, how much of the ecological devastation in these poorer countries is being caused by a Western mining company or Western oil company or a Western baby-formula company?

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#33

Post by marcosdumay »

tw04 wrote: post #20
rootusrootus wrote: post #5

Sometimes I don't know what to believe. Wasn't there a counterpoint posted here on HN a while back? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24133315

Without the full article it's tough to say, but my refute would be about my local environment. There has absolutely been a MASSIVE decline in NATIVE insects (among other things). Instead we have more asian beetles, emerald ash borers, and japanese beetles than you can shake a stick at. So while yes, technically the numbers may remain neutral, I'm not sure we can call it a healthy distribution.

> my refute would be about my local environment

Is it an urban environment? Most people's environments isn't a reasonable reference.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#34

Post by wiseowise »

revolvingocelot wrote: post #31
DiffEq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@babycake I take it that you are making a dig at Western society as a whole or just the U.S.? I think if you took some time and traveled to some of the non-capitalist (Marxist) countries you might see the utter horrifical ecological damage that they are doing and have done to the world. I think if all told you might find that capitalist countries have done a better job with the environment - I am not saying they have…

There are no "Marxist" countries on the planet. I'm not sure there ever were. I think I understand what you're trying to say, but someone could very easily take what you wrote as the suggestion that there are two types of countries: "capitalist" and "non-capitalist (Marxist)". That's... you should actually read Marx, or decide on a less fraught descriptor. For that matter, how much of the ecological devastation in th…

[flagged]

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#35

Post by slingnow »

mistrial9 wrote: post #18
daenz wrote: post #7

Sometimes I get the sense that people hate that we exist, in the numbers that we do, because of our impact on the earth by merely existing. A self-hatred if you will. And before you respond with "if only we did X, it would be fine," consider that the difficulty of convincing/coercing lots of people to do things is also an inherent part of our existence. Also part of our existence is the incentive to cheat to get ahea…

Insects are seriously part of eco-system, what part of that is not important? pp remarkably off-topic and additionally self-defeating.

All of it isn't important, in an absolute sense.

Shift your view up a couple levels of abstraction and everything on the planet is ultimately meaningless. People always seem to argue about "saving the planet" as though it has some greater meaning, when in reality it is just a poor proxy for "keep the planet inhabitable for humans".

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#37

Post by [deleted] »

slingnow wrote: post #35
mistrial9 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insects are seriously part of eco-system, what part of that is not important? pp remarkably off-topic and additionally self-defeating.

All of it isn't important, in an absolute sense. Shift your view up a couple levels of abstraction and everything on the planet is ultimately meaningless. People always seem to argue about "saving the planet" as though it has some greater meaning, when in reality it is just a poor proxy for "keep the planet inhabitable for humans".

[deleted]

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#39

Post by ashtonkem »

nickff wrote: post #27
ashtonkem wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Historically, the capitalist countries have been much less-polluted ('cleaner') and more environmentally friendly in general than the communist countries. With respect to 'socialist' countries, the correlations depend on exactly how you define socialism, and which countries you include/exclude.

I think there’s enough contradictory information here to make clear ideological statements like that indefensible. The late USSR was far dirtier than America of the same period, yes, but neither can hold a candle to pre-EPA America or late industrial revolution England. Heck, London had a coal smoke smog in 1952 that killed 10-12K people in a week.

Regardless, I find this discussion to be an unwelcome diversion. The USSR is dead, and even most communists don’t want that specific state back. The reality is that today in America we regularly let companies privatize their profits and shift their costs onto all of society. We don’t need to nationalize industry to fix that, and as you correctly point out that might not be sufficient, but we do need to regulate this.

Re: Where have all the insects gone?

#40

Post by MivLives »

nemacol wrote: post #28

Somehow mosquitos, stink bugs, and asian lady beetles persist in my area. It is amazing to see every other type of animal come back stronger with the waning of industry.

All these, and ticks, so many ticks. My roommate got lyme disease walking through are back yard which has next to no plant life and is mostly concrete.
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