Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, democratic governments have many drawbacks around regulation but aren't they the least bad choice we have in a situation like facebook? There is no governance beyond zuckerberg currently and he has proven that he is aligned with zuckerberg and not society. Continuing with the status quo and doing nothing does not seem like a good idea to me.
I mean, he's been pretty open about his goals and moral code for a while now. The entire company was built on the assumption that being connected to as many people as possible is net good. You can probably argue that he's wrong on this, but it's hard to say that he just cares about himself.
My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
131–140 of 269 posts
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#132On the popularity of Haugen: I find it amusing how your government treats a whistleblower who is promoting government control over social media, vs the way your government treats a whistleblower who leaks evidence of government spying and abuse. The fact that Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are treated the way they are (and the earlier treatment of Manning) gives the US government zero credibility on press freedom,…
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#133As cited in this article, Frances Haugen is arguing against allowing Facebook to use end-to-end encryption because she suggests Facebook should have more surveillance of private communications: https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/1452309133928054799?s... A lot of people jumped to the defense of the Facebook leaker because the media so successfully framed it as a “whistleblower” situation, but that’s not really wha…
Apparently three of her lawyers are connected to the US intel agencies. This is entirely US-gov friendly whistleblowing and they know which horses to back.
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#134- We can't just ignore the fact that the internet is a global technology but jurisdictions are regionally restricted. This is a tension, of course, but to just throw up the hands in the air and conclude that, therefore, the internet should be a wholly unregulated space is not an option and not a single nation will allow that eventually.
- It is not necessary that the whole of the internet abide by one of these mechanisms, different things can be regulated in different ways, and "mixtures" of the systems are conceivable.
- The fact that proposed regulations have edge cases is not something that makes regulation impossible. That seems to be a very engineer-like mindset, but in truth, the law is quite good when it comes to integrating competing interests and principles or do decide that at some point, something is "good enough". Otherwise no laws would ever be written.
- IP based restrictions do not become ineffective automatically because VPNs exist. This is proven by the fact that geoblocking works reasonably well on streaming services etc. VPNs are often blocked and, even when not, many people are not technically competent enough to set one up. Of course, it depends on what we want to use IP based restrictions for. If we're targeting criminals (or dissidents), that's probably not a viable solution, but if it's about blocking certain content to certain users then it should work reasonably well. NB: I'm not arguing in favour of geoblocking, it's a stupid thing that should disappear, but the point is solely that it works reasonably well for lots of users.
- Finding some sort of common ground between different jurisdictions is something that is necessary in many areas of life which is why trade agreements etc. exist. If the EU pushing GDPR means that Facebook et al. need to adopt better practices wrt. privacy across the globe (because it's too difficult to determine whether a user is EU-based or not), then I guess that's gonna be the price they have to pay to operate in the EU. If the price for operating in China is, nobody is able to talk critically about China anymore, then the response should be "well I guess we won't be operating in China, then" (or, failing that, this should become something that would make western users abandon the network, or even better, something that other countries would take issue with, forcing the service to actually have to take a stand on this).
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you care to share what you think the valid view points against encryption are? For my own part, I find it helpful to remember that questions over encryption have been ongoing for several decades. Historically, the arguments boiled down to shouting about CSAM, terrorism, drugs, etc. Mostly it tended to be really be about law enforcement agencies wanting to have the unfettered powers of surveillance. What's perha…
I don't think it's that complicated or nefarious. Law enforcement are humans just like us, mostly trying to do their jobs with as little effort as possible. Encrypted communication makes their jobs harder in some cases, so they don't like it. > What's perhaps most interesting to me is that the prevalence of encryption seems to have done very little to stop the FBI from catching people. I don't think we can know this.…
I completely agree. My point was not that their motives are inherently evil per se, just that they're as self-centered as anyone and carefully gazing deep into our navels does not imbue their perspectives with extra validity or compelling strength.
> I don't think we can know this.
We do know that the FBI routinely arrests and prosecutes people, even ones that use encryption. There's no end of public sources showing it occurring again and again. The fate of Dread Pirate Roberts is a good example.
> Or maybe you have some data?
What data would you like? The FBI has statistics available going back to the 1930s: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr
> Having the content of specific communications can make a big difference in actually proving guilt.
You're absolutely right, it definitely can be! Which is why the FBI has learned how to both build cases without such things. They've also learned how to gain access to encrypted communications. Between the two, some might opine that it's enough to raise questions about if they really need to prevent you and I from having access to cryptography or not. They're clearly experts at law enforcement and perhaps have no need to confiscate the tools of mathematics from technologists.
Which brings me back to the point. Let's look hard at our viewpoints and biases and expertise and paychecks and ask ourselves - why does the FBI want us to not have encryption? Why do we want it? Who has the valid view points here? What have we gained from this navel-gazing?
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you ban monitoring of public posts ?
> How do you ban monitoring of public posts? I'm not suggesting you should or can in any practical way (how heavily - or not at all - that public posts should be monitored by the government is a different debate from what I was saying). I'm saying that the parent comment claiming the views are not necessarily conflicting, is incorrect. This must always conflict in the end: > I don't think these are conflicting views:…
You can make an end-to-end message between two users perfectly secure, to the limits of engineering and the security hygine of the two users. No problem there. If you have an encrypted message sent out to a group of users, as the group of users gets larger and larger, it's more likely that one of those users might be an informant to law enforcement, or will be sloppy with their message hygine, so that after they get arrested invading the capitol on January 6th (for example), law enforcement gets access to all of their information on their phone with the pin code 1234. Still no problem as far as I'm concerned. Criminals tend to be stupid, and that's good from a societal point of view.
Public posts are a different story altogether, because social networks have an economic incentive to promote "engagement". And if that engagement happens to emphasize messages that incite hate, or anger, or causes people to think that vaccines contain 5G modems, or whatever, hey, that's just good for shareholders, and in the captalist system, shareholder value (especially VC value, for startups) is the highest good, right? Well, I have some real concerns about about that. I think that corporations which are prioritizing engagement uber ales, even if that causes social harm, should be potentially regulated.
And that's why it is quite possible for someone (like me) to believe that end to end encryption should be allowed, and promoted, even if it gives the FBI hives --- and at the same time, argue that public posts should be highly monitored from the perpsective of trying to get insight to whether the amplification alogirhtms might be doing something unhealthy for our society's information ecosystem.
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On one hand, it seems everybody wants more freedom and less surveillance, but they give FB a hard time for not monitoring content better. I don't think these are conflicting views: (1) Less monitoring on private messages (2) More monitoring on public posts
> I don't think these are conflicting views: (1) Less monitoring on private messages (2) More monitoring on public posts The same people argue that FB needs to censor more public content and wringing their hands in public over just how awful it is that in places like India, WhatsApp message forwards can spread memes that respectable people like western journalists and tech activists don't like. It's a "who, whom" thi…
There is such a thing as legitimate authority.
For example - there are people who do actual science, and other people who actually can read scientific papers and make assessments, there are people who have legitimate basic understanding of science, relationships with scientists, and consistently communicate reasonable information about that, as it relates to our world.
And there are people who make stuff up.
And very influential actors who will use a system without information integrity to their advantage.
These people wield enormous power and fundamentally shape outcomes for everyone.
Both the Truth, and the Public Good matter. While the later is more ambiguous, it's also material.
The question the becomes - how do we allow yahoos in their basements to say anything they want publicly (i.e. aliens invented COVID, the vaccine will kill you), how do we allow legitimate detractors to question classical authority (i.e. ivermectin might work), how do we try to unbias information when it's politically contentious (i.e. mask policies), how do we allow politicians to speak their minds, but to not destroy their communities with irrational or completely irresponsible information (i.e. 'the vaccine isn't safe, you don't need masks, just eat healthy )'.
I'm afraid we don't have the answers, but maybe some degree of 'proportional oversight' on the most public bits of information might be reasonable i.e. statements about the vaccine, when they reach a certain threshold of popularity, must have references to actual studies, or something along those lines.
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn't any reason someone can't be both a whistleblower and an activist. > and some of her suggestions really do not align with what the tech community wants at all For what it's worth, she says her views on E2E encryption have been misrepresented. Also, where is this single "tech community" with cohesive views on all this? I've never seen it. I'm pretty skeptical of anyone claiming to speak for the tech communi…
> For what it's worth, she says her views on E2E encryption have been misrepresented. My link above has direct quotes from Haughen regarding E2E encryption. I don’t understand why people are so eager to project something different on to what she’s directly saying.
Do you really think those tweeted screen shots sum it all up accurately, though? Considering that she says her views are being mispreresented, couldn't those two quotes be cherry-picked? You know the reputation of the Telegraph, right?
A guy tweeted that someone said (unattributed, but I assume the Telegraph) that she said.... It's just not solid. If you're going to accept that uncritically, I think you're essentially believing what you want to believe.
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think these are conflicting views: (1) Less monitoring on private messages (2) More monitoring on public posts The same people argue that FB needs to censor more public content and wringing their hands in public over just how awful it is that in places like India, WhatsApp message forwards can spread memes that respectable people like western journalists and tech activists don't like. It's a "who, whom" thi…
While I agree the elites are upset about losing power, there absolutely are issues of principle here. There is such a thing as legitimate authority. For example - there are people who do actual science, and other people who actually can read scientific papers and make assessments, there are people who have legitimate basic understanding of science, relationships with scientists, and consistently communicate reasonabl…
How do "we" this? How do "we" that? Who determines what constitutes the group of "we"? Power to censor inevitably, invariably, and irreversibly gets used to simple deceive and propagandize people in favor of what the censor wants. Safety is no excuse either --- every tyranny begins with the excuse that unusual powers are necessitated by some emergency.
There is no such thing as "irresponsible information". I reject the entire concept. There are only competing truth claims, and some nebulous "we" made up of journalists and tech activists has no more legitimate basis for policing speech than anyone else. There is no "legitimate authority" over people's minds.
You're right here that there is an issue of principle underlying the double standard: the principle is that some people think that they ought to control what other people thing, ostensibly for their own good. I wish they would at least be open about this principle.
Re: My interview with Steven Levy re. leaking of my Facebook Goodbye post
#140> I built a great team, built the product, and unlike the current crop of whistleblowers I submitted my resignation and fostered strong relationships with my soon-to-be-ex-colleagues, because there is a lot more impact to be had through constructive engagement than in rage-quitting. This has a bit of a holier-than-thou approach. He was in a radically-different position than some of the whistleblowers — he was an engi…
Sure. You could say this about any company or any country. Or even a person. We're all just a collection of thoughts and actions.