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Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

businessinsider.com

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Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#331

Post by whakim »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #322
whakim wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, javascript has some quirks. But most bootcamps are trying to get their students from "zero to employable developer" in a very short amount of time, and "employable entry-level developer" is almost always synonymous with "employable entry-level web developer". Given that mandate, you basically have to teach people the basics of web applications, which means talking about what happens on the client, which means ja…

Better yet would be Ruby. It's much more beginner friendly and is a thoroughly consistent OO language—i.e., everything is an object, including numbers and strings. Ruby's also got a much better web dev story, which is good for junior devs (without ML and/or infrastructure backgrounds) who are looking to enter the market. After learning Ruby, either JS or Java could be a great 2nd language.

I certainly don't think Ruby is indefensible. I think it's possible to get a lot done with Ruby, and I think that's very valuable for new developers who need to learn a lot in a very limited amount of time. But I don't think that addresses the elephant in the room: junior web developers have to deal with the frontend, and that means javascript. So why waste (very limited time) teaching them a second language too?

> It's much more beginner friendly and is a thoroughly consistent OO language—i.e., everything is an object, including numbers and strings.

This sort of thing occurs to you and me and makes sense because we have a broader understanding of software engineering. In practice, I just don't think "everything is an object" means much to someone who's a month into a bootcamp.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#332

Post by eru »

harry8 wrote: post #245
edgefield wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I’ve seen a company bought by private equity, it spells the beginning of the end. The strategy always seems to milk every last drop of cash from the business, without any long term sustainable plan. As an anecdotal case, I visited Sea World over the summer and half the concessions and shows were closed. It was still expensive and crowded and and there were service bottlenecks everywhere. Long lines for a b…

It's an issue in market information where regulation can't really work [1]. Vendors have a brand. They establish the value of the brand such that purchasers have a signal that they aren't going to be ripped off. For example you can be pretty sure coca-cola isn't going to cut costs to the point where they don't care about putting poison in the bottle - and you don't need regulation to know they won't do it. Zeus-Cola?…

In a sense, this is all about interest rates.

If capital becomes abundant enough that rates of return become low enough, then the long term becomes more and more important in corporate planning.

If interest rates are high, then short term gutting of the business _is_ the rational move.

(Interest rates have been rather low in the last decade or so. Not sure if that had much of an influence?)

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#333

Post by eru »

lmm wrote: post #270
harry8 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an issue in market information where regulation can't really work [1]. Vendors have a brand. They establish the value of the brand such that purchasers have a signal that they aren't going to be ripped off. For example you can be pretty sure coca-cola isn't going to cut costs to the point where they don't care about putting poison in the bottle - and you don't need regulation to know they won't do it. Zeus-Cola?…

I keep redrafting a blog post in my head about this cycle and how it means that even though the world is getting better, every specific brand is getting worse. (There was a wonderful post about Starbucks specifically that I now can't find, talking about how they grew their reputation by having hand-made coffee that people loved before switching to machine brewing that required less skill and people wouldn't hate). I…

Not every brand is getting worse. Some are staying the same, and some are improving.

The regulation you suggest seems a bit silly. If transparency is good for a brand, companies can already implement it. (And if customers don't care enough to pay for transparency, why force them to?)

What's the externality that your proposed regulation is trying to internalize?

Also keep in mind that disclosure regulations put an undue burden on smaller companies and upstarts, as they don't benefit from economies of scale. (You need roughly the same amount of lawyers and accountants etc to comply here, no matter how big your business is.)

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#334

Post by eru »

blululu wrote: post #291
mbesto wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I’ve seen a company bought by private equity, it spells the beginning of the end. I regularly work with PE firms. You can't paint the whole industry with one brush stroke. I've seen more than a handful of companies get bought by PE to become very successful for everyone involved (PE, management, customers)...and the opposite. That being said - it's very common to see companies in the large cap space ($5B…

> While you might have had a poor experience, the rest of the market may have been willing to wait in 15 minute lines for $10 bottles of water. If you disagree with PE, the easiest way to "stick it to them" is to vote with your wallet. Simply stop going to Sea World and you'll see PE change their tune pretty quickly. Ironically this is exactly the sort of attitude that the parent is complaining about. You could never…

Why? I've never been to SeaWorld, and it's really easy for me to look up up-to-date reviews before I plan a trip. Easier than ever, in fact.

The hysteresis effect you mention requires that people would stupid when spending their own dollars.

> Nobody likes 15 min lines or $10 water bottles; they tolerate them because there are other experiences that are worthwhile along the way. You remove these experiences and you are basically just screwing people who are going off outdated information about the quality of the experience.

Perhaps other people just have different preferences from you and make different trade-offs?

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#335

Post by eru »

xzel wrote: post #292
mbesto wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I’ve seen a company bought by private equity, it spells the beginning of the end. I regularly work with PE firms. You can't paint the whole industry with one brush stroke. I've seen more than a handful of companies get bought by PE to become very successful for everyone involved (PE, management, customers)...and the opposite. That being said - it's very common to see companies in the large cap space ($5B…

In respect to Sea World the more realistic strategy is either run at a minor loss until the real estate is profitable or squeeze dry ASAP and sell. Or the timeless play of load it with debt, payout themselves and declare bankruptcy. Of course there are other PE businesses that are ran with only minor changes. I have a friend whose firm invests in dermatology offices and has created a network of small offices nation w…

> Or the timeless play of load it with debt, payout themselves and declare bankruptcy.

Well, as long as they sell the bonds only to consenting adults, what's wrong with that?

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#336

Post by eru »

webmaven wrote: post #308
cwilkes wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beginning of the end happened before that because most healthy companies don’t need private equity unless they need a lot of cash for an expansion. Part of the reason they got in that position is that they were charging to little to make money. It only follows that prices will go up and probably service down as the company stressed customer service in the hopes of attracting better future capital.

Too many companies end up in a leveraged buyout by PE that is ultimately based not on unprofitability, but just insufficient profitability to satisfy shareholders (some of which are buying in just to force the issue and then unload the stock before the bill comes due for the short-term thinking).

Eh, that's fine, I guess?

Bob founds a company that makes widgets. Bob sells the company to a PE company. The PE company runs the company into the ground. That opens a gap in the market for (a new) Bob to open a new company that makes widgets.

If shareholders or private equity or private equity's debtors are willing to subsidise Bob this way, who are we to complain?

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#337

Post by vasilipupkin »

cm2012 wrote: post #295
el_dev_hell wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people to who can afford to go to school to broaden their education without a clear job benefit are those born rich. I respectfully disagree. I've spent an enormous amount of time inside universities (as both a student and employed as an engineer). The vast majority of students have no clear job benefit at the end of their degree. Most students are studying something with no obvious job correlation. The la…

I think we completely agree. Unless you have a clear job benefit (like studying CS) you should only go to college unless you're already rich and it doesn't matter.

Respectfully, this is nonsense. Employers still very much prefer people with college degrees for many roles, even if the degree itself isn’t 100% relevant to the job.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#338

Post by njarboe »

eru wrote: post #335
xzel wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In respect to Sea World the more realistic strategy is either run at a minor loss until the real estate is profitable or squeeze dry ASAP and sell. Or the timeless play of load it with debt, payout themselves and declare bankruptcy. Of course there are other PE businesses that are ran with only minor changes. I have a friend whose firm invests in dermatology offices and has created a network of small offices nation w…

> Or the timeless play of load it with debt, payout themselves and declare bankruptcy. Well, as long as they sell the bonds only to consenting adults, what's wrong with that?

"consenting adults"

By that did you mean "the Fed"?

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#339

Post by sam0x17 »

ksml wrote: post #206
sam0x17 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they will actually deal with all of it. First question I get is usually "what is var" followed by "when do I use arrow functions and when do I use normal functions" shortly followed by "why does this code work with a normal function but not with an arrow function" or "why does my code using classes and arrow functions not work on [ancient browser some family member has for some reason]?". I'll also get numerou…

That sounds like a pedagogy problem, not a language problem. From my experience [1], students learn JS just fine as a first language, as long as the learning process is structured well. Every practical language has its quirks, and no one learns a programming language by learning all the quirks at one time. You can be productive in JS without understanding all of the quirks, and then build up to that later. When you'r…

Right but this is my point. The bootcamp does a terrible job explaining this stuff, so I have to re-teach it in my mentoring sessions.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#340

Post by sam0x17 »

whakim wrote: post #187
sam0x17 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One huge mistake I think a lot (but not all of) the bootcamps are making is taking the easy route of simply using JavaScript to teach both frontend and backend. JavaScript is a TERRIBLE first programming language. I usually have to spend 2-3 sessions per mentee explaining the idiosyncrasies of JavaScript, where some of the OOP concepts actually come from, and how things work in other languages to put into context the…

Yes, javascript has some quirks. But most bootcamps are trying to get their students from "zero to employable developer" in a very short amount of time, and "employable entry-level developer" is almost always synonymous with "employable entry-level web developer". Given that mandate, you basically have to teach people the basics of web applications, which means talking about what happens on the client, which means ja…

Yes, but to be good at JavaScript, I think you need to learn another language first.
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