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The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

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Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#251
post #37

I don't turn on my camera for meetings. You really don't need to see my face. Anyone who says otherwise is not a serious person. We have been multitasking while on the phone for decades. This is no different.

Do you never nod in agreement when someone else is making a good point. Or use hand gestures? Also you can smile at a joke when you have your camera on. Sometimes it’s nice to have a joke with colleagues.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#252
post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

Like those who can't touch type now, being exhausted by video calls may eventually be the exception. I expect to see a generational gap here. The twitch streaming, discord VC generation are not going to have the problems you're describing with video calls.

I'm sure people would pay more attention in sprint grooming meetings if 90% of the screen was showing video game footage instead of Jira.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#253

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

Is there a more affordable alternative to the Elgato ring light? I'd love a software-controlled USB ring light but $200 for such seems a bit steep.

have you checked amazon, there's items in the $30-70 price range. I got one a while back and it's served me well.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#254
post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

> there's also far less participation when everybody has their camera off.

In my experience, participation doesn't seem to be related to whether the camera is on or off. Participation is generally reduced because such meetings really only allow one person to speak at a time, and if you aren't extroverted then you have a hard time horning in to be able to speak. It also makes actual group conversation essentially impossible.

Virtual meetings work best when there's a single presenter addressing an audience. They're really awful when everyone is expected to chime in.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#255
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

What's wrong with with someone turning off their camera and eating a snack while developers dive into the weeds for 15 minutes? Sometimes it's worthwhile for someone to be there just to make one or two important decisions in an hour long meeting. I've learned when you have a question for someone you need to say their name at the begining of the question, not the end, and give a few seconds of background - which is al…

> let's do what we can to take advantage of the pros they offer

Serious question: aside from not being required to be in the same physical place at the same time, what are the pros?

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#256
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

I was a tech manager for 25 years. One of my basic policies was "no scheduled recurring meetings" (I'd think that scrum meetings count as those). Meetings, for me, were "one-off" events, with focus on a particular, singular goal. Of course, I worked for a Japanese company, so my policy didn't mean squat to the higher-ups. I had regularly-scheduled meetings; whether or not I wanted it. Many of these meetings were litt…

> Meetings, for me, were "one-off" events, with focus on a particular, singular goal.

I could not agree more. We as a culture do meetings entirely wrong.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#257
post #223

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

Where do you position your camera so it both looks like you're making eye contact yet you can see your screen/audience?

I just got a Flexible Gooseneck Arm clamp mount like this: https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B082HQJ1JX/

I've got three large QHD 32"s and a 24" on top on aluminum profile. The arm comes in over the top from the intersection of the middle and left monitor, and brings the camera into the field of view of the monitor - i.e. e.g. 1/4th to 1/3rd down from the top - IN FRONT OF the monitor. This is eye level, and also gets the camera a lot closer to my face - which is great (for the StreamCam).

The camera is quite narrow profile from the front, and with my 32"s it certainly doesn't feel like it's blocking the whole display. I can then position the video of who I am speaking with just off behind / to the side of the camera, which is as good as I can get it (a big improvement).

Before I got the arm, camera was too far away, and too far up and to the left - it had to go to the side of the 24", which is centred above the middle 32", and angled inwards so I can easily look up at it. (Perfect for e.g. Windows Terminal, or Slack and such).

For this particular flex mount, I relied on getting it on to the one of the two flat hinges between the 8020 profiles that the monitors are mounted on. Mounting might be an issue without such profile, so.. improvise!

It's easy to lift the arm up after a meeting.

If I had more budget I'd maybe get another Rode PSA1, which I use for the microphone - but it's very pricey (worth it for microphone!), and the flex arm does the job nicely. USB cable is velcroed to it, very narrow profile from the front.

Edit: My profile rig has been the biggest part of my home office upgrade. All the monitors are set up with ideal angles and spacing, and stay firmly put. I also use it for sim racing, but most of the time is spent on it working. I'm blown away by how much of an upgrade it has been. 8020 profile is such a blast once you get used to it.

I've also set up some plants behind my seat for a nice atmosphere, and tech books on a small shelf; the whole rig is facing the wall behind me so that nothing ever accidentally enters the picture. Also I have static picture scenes in OBS Studio a Streamdeck key press away should I ever need to "cut" my video. Same for muting audio input, no fumbling for the on screen mute button required.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with with someone turning off their camera and eating a snack while developers dive into the weeds for 15 minutes? Sometimes it's worthwhile for someone to be there just to make one or two important decisions in an hour long meeting. I've learned when you have a question for someone you need to say their name at the begining of the question, not the end, and give a few seconds of background - which is al…

> let's do what we can to take advantage of the pros they offer Serious question: aside from not being required to be in the same physical place at the same time, what are the pros?

Making recordings of meetings that are setting out to make decisions or even just discuss things in deep detail means people who weren't able to attend, or are just interested in the discussion had, are able to watch it on demand.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#259
post #243
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your use case? There is really no need for a high-quality condenser mic in the vast majority of cases. For work meetings, voice chats, streaming, etc. the difference between an AT2020 and a high-quality mic will be entirely imperceptible.

We are looking to do desktop game streaming. I currently have a very cheap ($20) condenser mic that is ok, but I’m hoping for something in the hundred dollar range that can pick up sound a lot better. I have to pump up the gain on my cheap mic quite a bit right now.

The RØDE Microphones NT-USB Mini would be a great step up from that, comes highly recommended. (I have one in the household.) Also the AT2020 is a classic, but I haven't used it myself. I have a plethora Audio Technica headphones though, so I am partial to the brand.

Mine is a Steinberg UR22 audio interface, and a SeElectronics model X1 microphone, on the RØDE PSA1 microphone arm. As it was commented, this is overkill for my needs, but when I bought it (2015) there wasn't that much in the tier below this.

I'd likely look at Elgato's new audio interface if I was to buy again, the Steinberg is top of class but might be a bit too much for my needs. I did buy the audio part of my setup in 2015 though; a lot has happened since then.

I use NVIDIA Broadcast to process my voice (noise reduction; the microphone is crazy sensitive - and my desktop has good air cooling) for work, and Discord's built in for when I'm doing some gaming.

NVIDIA Broadcast's noise reduction is good enough to merit the GPU purchase for this feature alone - it doesn't compress your voice overly, let alone the video processing I'm also using to slightly blur the background - which is leagues ahead of e.g. Google Meet's built in feature.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#260
post #197

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

Hello, would love to learn more about what hardware you are using. I am in the market for a high quality condenser mic and arm to hold it. I am already using a Scarlett Solo interface. But would appreciate any info you can share on your light and audio setup. Also why do you need multiple elgatos? Just for convenience?

I use multiple studio lights (Key Light, Key Light Air) for three point lighting. One of the two Hue bars is positioned behind my head up high for adding highlights to hair, headphone, the other lights up area behind my back. Check out youtube videos on Three point lighting, there's a good number of them - especially worth looking at the streamer ones. Again I don't stream, but everything applies.

I replied on the microphone Q nearby in the thread.

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