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The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

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Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#201

Post by Kye »

varjag wrote: post #92
boglurker wrote: post #8

I haven't turned my camera on in meetings for over 8 months, I don't think anyone really cares that much, and I find some people like it because they feel less pressure to keep their own cameras on as a result. That's been my experience at least, I'm sure some people have bosses that require it for whatever reason which might make that not an option for everyone.

I'm regularly in meetings where people are on camera and where everyone has them off. It's clear the degree of people not following the discussion when the cameras are off is much more substantial.

Maybe they're paying as much attention while on camera, but using the same fake signals they use to look like they're paying attention at in-person meetings.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#202

Post by fleddr »

hellweaver666 wrote: post #90

I agree that virtual meetings ARE fatiguing but guess what... a full day of in-person meetings is also fatiguing. Meetings ARE fatiguing. At least when I'm virtual I don't spend my day bouncing from one meeting room (sometimes in different buildings) to the next hoping to find a toilet somewhere in-between or have time to grab a coffee. I'll take virtual any day.

We had a company-wide change where if you organize a one hour meeting in Outlook, it would actually schedule 45 mins. A well intended change allowing people small breaks, to stretch their legs, go to the toilet, grab a drink or just give their minds a break.

Guess what the response was of the managerial class: alright, so to have a TRUE 1 hour meeting, I just schedule 75 mins?

Way to miss the point. In my view, the costs of sending a meeting invite is just too low. There is no barrier at all to start useless and inefficient meetings whilst the human and productivity cost is enormous.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#203

Post by raxxorrax »

lucumo wrote: post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

In our company we do it exclusively without a camera since we mostly show the workspace of someone while talking about it or the document to be discussed. Exceptions are sometimes meetings with externals or job interviews, when it is nice to be able to see someone at least once. I really don't get the appeal otherwise, why not use the time to write something down at least?

An exception is the sales department which prefers to use a camera for obvious reasons. But engineers vary rarely use cameras. I don't even have one right now in my office.

I think if you know the people you are talking with, a camera isn't needed to "feel" people.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#204

Post by TeMPOraL »

lucumo wrote: post #105
piva00 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rude? Have you considered the other side? I'm extremely fatigued by having the camera on, I feel surveilled and every movement I do in front of it is calculated by my unconscious mind. It takes a real toll on my productivity having to have the camera on for a string of meetings. I feel it's extremely rude to dismiss others' experiences with the damn camera on for a virtual meeting. What is up that you need someone el…

> What is up that you need someone else to have a camera pointing to their face that you can't have with their voices? Smiles, frowns, nods, glazed looks, puzzled looks, surprised looks, I-want-to-say-something-but-I-can't-get-a-word-in looks, zoning out, impatience, et cetera, et cetera. There's really a lot people communicate with their faces, both consciously and unconsciously.

People also focus their attention.

If I'm at an in-person meeting of 5-8 people, and 3 of them get into a longer discussion about things that are irrelevant to me, and for understanding which I don't have the background, I can zone out and nobody cares, because nobody is looking at me. Everyone is looking at the people talking.

On a video call, my zoned-out face will make the trio feel uneasy; instead of discussing their topic quickly, they'll stumble and try to "talk to the audience", or god forbid, drag everyone else into the discussion. So with forced camera on, I have to look focused while squinting at the other screen, discretely playing 2048 and pinching myself to not yawn visibly, while with camera off, I could get off my chair, stretch a little, or do something actually useful for the company.

I'll be happier with having always-on camera on long videocalls when videocalls start working like real-life meetings: not everyone is looking at everyone else all the time, and everyone can tell who's looking at them in any given moment. The way things are today, I find this constant surveillance to be mentally tormenting, and only activate my camera on the basis of courtesy: 1:1 meetings, some team meetings, meetings with an important higher-up who also has their camera on, etc.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#205

Post by JTbane »

jacquesm wrote: post #73

We are pretty small and have a 'camera on' policy for our one one hour meeting on Friday every week, and if you don't want to have your camera on you are asked not to participate, and an eight hour interview day every Tuesday. The only exception is for observers present during the meeting (for instance: customer representatives that do not have anything to contribute but are just there to listen and make their own no…

>We are pretty small and have a 'camera on' policy for our one one hour meeting on Friday every week, and if you don't want to have your camera on you are asked not to participate

Wow, the whole team gets to see my unsmiling face staring at a screen for hours, what a productivity boost. Absolute bunk, you should be looking at the screen-share anyway.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#206

Post by the_snooze »

lucumo wrote: post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

>I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices.

This is exactly how see online meetings. It doesn't feel like I'm interacting with real people. I can't gauge people's level of attention. Conversational turn-taking feels like swimming through mud. And we don't even have the basic expectation that speaking more loudly (or softly) is perceived accurately by the listeners.

Just a deeply frustrating experience all around.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#207

Post by nanny »

par wrote: post #197
sundvor wrote: post #192

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

Hello, would love to learn more about what hardware you are using. I am in the market for a high quality condenser mic and arm to hold it. I am already using a Scarlett Solo interface. But would appreciate any info you can share on your light and audio setup. Also why do you need multiple elgatos? Just for convenience?

What is your use case? There is really no need for a high-quality condenser mic in the vast majority of cases. For work meetings, voice chats, streaming, etc. the difference between an AT2020 and a high-quality mic will be entirely imperceptible.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#208

Post by gumby »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #166
lucumo wrote: post #25

> following a day of virtual meetings I've done full days of real meetings. Those were exhausting and very draining. I'm surprised that anybody would expect anything different from virtual meetings. I have noticed that it's harder to feel people as fully human when they're little 2D movies. Even moreso when they're disembodied voices. It's less so when I've met the people IRL. I'm guessing I can then link their image…

I turn off the camera and walk around- this leads to more energy and better engagement for me.

This isn’t to knock it, just double clicking on your statement:

I can well believe it leads to more engagement on your part, for the reasons you describe. I feel the same way.

But do other people engage with your comments etc? Does your enthusiasm bring out other people.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#209

Post by fartcannon »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #122
fartcannon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like those who can't touch type now, being exhausted by video calls may eventually be the exception. I expect to see a generational gap here. The twitch streaming, discord VC generation are not going to have the problems you're describing with video calls.

I'd argue against Twitch since these are more consumer-supplier. If anything, that'd prove the point of having only the primary speaker be visible while the remainder stays largely quiet or asks questions Q&A style. On the flipside I could argue the situation is more akin to playing a multiplayer game over VC, at least for meetings that aren't "let's stare at cameras for (half) an hour". Your virtual space is limited…

It is obnoxious that management wants video calls, when an incredible amount of business was happily done over the phone. And in person is definitely the least necessary, just a relic of an older time.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#210

Post by karimabuseer »

sundvor wrote: post #192

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

That sounds awesome dude. Amazing proactivity. I have a teeny desk so would love to have a setup like that once I get more space!
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