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The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

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Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#191

Post by b3morales »

varjag wrote: post #92
boglurker wrote: post #8

I haven't turned my camera on in meetings for over 8 months, I don't think anyone really cares that much, and I find some people like it because they feel less pressure to keep their own cameras on as a result. That's been my experience at least, I'm sure some people have bosses that require it for whatever reason which might make that not an option for everyone.

I'm regularly in meetings where people are on camera and where everyone has them off. It's clear the degree of people not following the discussion when the cameras are off is much more substantial.

And so, having made this observation, what steps have you taken to ensure that your meetings are purposeful and relevant to the people who are attending, so that they feel able to participate?

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#192

Post by sundvor »

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc.

I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot.

I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control the light and setup has made a big difference in overcoming issues related to this; it has really helped put myself forward in the best light (pun intended). In this area of exclusively working from home, it was one worth spending effort on. I'm happy to put my (ugly) face in there, and really don't mind the virtual office.

(Fun fact my camera is "only" a Logitech StreamCam, but the lighting makes such a difference. The ability to bring up and down the meetings with a single macro button on the Streamdeck is also invaluable.)

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#193

Post by notreallyserio »

Buttons840 wrote: post #119
Lutger wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perceived the need to keep the camera off during a meeting is a good indication there is something wrong with the meeting, not that it's a good thing to keep the camera off. We had some recurring meetings where people consistently didn't show up. The managers first impulse was to make the meeting mandatory. But the first thought should be: why are people not showing up? Engineers hate being unproductive, it shoul…

What's wrong with with someone turning off their camera and eating a snack while developers dive into the weeds for 15 minutes? Sometimes it's worthwhile for someone to be there just to make one or two important decisions in an hour long meeting. I've learned when you have a question for someone you need to say their name at the begining of the question, not the end, and give a few seconds of background - which is al…

> I've learned when you have a question for someone you need to say their name at the begining of the question, not the end, and give a few seconds of background

I think this is necessary for me in person or online. My mind tends to wander during meetings, especially meetings that don’t specifically involve (say, group status meetings where people just read their completed items and backlogs that we all already see).

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#194

Post by avisser »

varispeed wrote: post #141
andrewzah wrote: post #125

It’s interesting how people here are adamant that camera usage [all the time] is important or necessary. It isn’t. It's an opinion, and in my opinion, a bad one that isn't justified by anything. At my company we only use them if necessary, and I’ve been with them for over 3 years working remotely. We get work done quite well. edit: update wording for clarity

We only use it for introductions and when someone has something to show, e.g. their pet. Unfortunately a new manager insists that everyone should have cameras switched on for "human connection" and so that people feel more integrated.

I wouldn't discount human connection enough to quote it. I've been the only remote person on a team pre-pandemic. It was easy to see others as assholes who just cause work for me if you never/rarely put a face to

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#195

Post by piva00 »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #180
prepend wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure this doesn’t apply to you at all, but cynically, I just feel that when I hear these weird to me reasons that I can’t understand, I just assume the person hasn’t showered in a week. I had female coworker confide to me that she didn’t like turning her camera on because it takes 40 minutes to apply her makeup every day. So she only does it for important meetings, but otherwise leaves the camera off.

> I just feel that when I hear these weird to me reasons that I can’t understand, I just assume the person hasn’t showered in a week. So... if you don't understand someone else's reasons for doing something, you assume they aren't being honest with you?

> So... if you don't understand someone else's reasons for doing something, you assume they aren't being honest with you?

I feel you are getting somewhere with this train of thought, so far I've replied a few people on this thread that seems to think this way and project this need of having a camera on because they don't understand how that can negatively affect others and assume people are being dishonest.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#196

Post by rpmisms »

golemotron wrote: post #183
charcircuit wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from the the game modding scene meetings never have webcams. It's always just voice calls. Using a video camera is such a foreign idea to me. I don't even own a web camera for my PC. Another weird thing to me is people using other's real names. It's just taboo to use people's real names instead of their screen names. Even my boss and the owners of the company I refer to by their screen name.

Balaji Srinivasan sees this as the future of work. There's little upside to mixing your work and personal identities and a lot of downside. I can only imagine that it would prevent the most overt forms of discrimination also.

I can honestly say I hadn't thought of it, but I think you're right. I'd love to have that layer of anonymity, as it were, at work, since I'm a completely different person on the job anyway.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#197

Post by par »

sundvor wrote: post #192

I've put some effort into my setup in the past 24 months; multiple Elgato and Hue lights, a Streamdeck for macros and scene control, condenser microphone on an arm with an audio interface, OBS studio etc. I am not a streamer, but I'm likely set up like one; I've studied their methods of light and composition, and learned a lot. I have some serious scarring from facial surgery decades past, and being able to control t…

Hello, would love to learn more about what hardware you are using. I am in the market for a high quality condenser mic and arm to hold it. I am already using a Scarlett Solo interface. But would appreciate any info you can share on your light and audio setup. Also why do you need multiple elgatos? Just for convenience?

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#198

Post by fleddr »

jacquesm wrote: post #73

We are pretty small and have a 'camera on' policy for our one one hour meeting on Friday every week, and if you don't want to have your camera on you are asked not to participate, and an eight hour interview day every Tuesday. The only exception is for observers present during the meeting (for instance: customer representatives that do not have anything to contribute but are just there to listen and make their own no…

"if you don't want to have your camera on you are asked not to participate"

This policy is cruel and needlessly authoritative. I work in a highly international context and have learned that both culturally and individually, people have different comfort levels regarding expressing themselves. Some are fine with cameras on, some prefer voice only. Some are so introverted that they prefer chat, and some are even only comfortable with private chat.

"If you can't be bothered to have your camera on in meetings then you probably shouldn't be in that meeting in the first place."

Good, stop inviting me then, I'd imagine a response might be. I personally have about 3 voice-only meetings per day, but I guess according to your view, I shouldn't bother at all. I successfully lead a team of 12 this way, located across the globe. People can do whatever they want (camera, audio, chat), and it works fine. Your all or nothing view seems a dramatized personal preference, and nothing else.

"and then to figure out who says what"

I don't know what software you use but both in Zoom and Teams you can see who speaks. I would also assume that if your team is so small that you recognize voices.

"and to keep a conversation going"

If you need to keep a conversation going, you may want to rethink the point of the meeting.

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#199

Post by fbanon »

prepend wrote: post #151
piva00 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I like offices, I'm a very outspoken and outgoing person, I enjoy social interactions. I don't like a camera pointing at my face . It's not that difficult to see that this is a very different experience than sharing an office. And I'm tired of repeating this.

I’m sure this doesn’t apply to you at all, but cynically, I just feel that when I hear these weird to me reasons that I can’t understand, I just assume the person hasn’t showered in a week. I had female coworker confide to me that she didn’t like turning her camera on because it takes 40 minutes to apply her makeup every day. So she only does it for important meetings, but otherwise leaves the camera off.

>I just assume the person hasn’t showered in a week

Is it any of your business?

Re: The fatiguing effects of camera use in virtual meetings

#200

Post by fleddr »

nzmsv wrote: post #86
neximo64 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do your team members say of your view to the idea?

Nobody speaks out against this stuff. People just quit and go to a truly remote friendly place instead. Next time you are in a conversation about remote work, see if you notice this: the only people who speak up are the ones who say "I can't wait to go to the office". The rest smile and nod. And yet online polls show a very different picture.

A massive red flag indeed, the parent comment is a text book example of traditional "manage by presence", not to mention an authoritative top-down culture.
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