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NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

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Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#51

Post by ruraljuror »

systemvoltage wrote: post #36
dpratt wrote: post #26

I am but one atom in a molecule in a drop in an ocean, but I have pledged to never be involved in the hiring of any person who has had any willing association with any organization responsible for efforts similar to Pegasus, with no exceptions. I will also immediately resign any job that violates the above as well. Trends like this are not to be taken lightly - for the first time in human history, the concept of an a…

I can't get behind bifurcation of job market based on what political side you belong to. This seems destructive at best, dangerous at worse. It's like the classic Palantir vs Google argument. I won't hire anyone if they show any sort of activism at work.

Unless I am missing some irony in it, the last sentence contradicts the preceding claims. Denying activism ia activism itself; you are enforcing a reactionary culture.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#52

Post by lukeschlather »

lostlogin wrote: post #20
krisoft wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government is also one of the largest customers of ICBM rockets too. And you would find that it is not an unregulated field at all. I don’t know about regulations in the field. All I know is that “US gov buys a lot of X, therefore it X is not regulated” is not a convincing argument.

I’m not sure that regulation really applies much when you operate at that level. How many countries has the US waged war on with the combatants in both sides using US made weapons? The scene has been set again in Afghanistan. It isn’t ICBMs but it’s not a virtuous circle when you are dealing with weaponry.

Has an ICBM ever been used offensively? I would say ICBMs are among the most well-regulated weapons in existence.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#53

Post by FridayoLeary »

OminousWeapons wrote: post #34
FridayoLeary wrote: post #9

So how do we protect our privacy from the advance of technology? It doesn't seem possible. Just going after NSO is useless.

It depends on what your threat model is. If its individuals, local law enforcement, or even national law enforcement (context dependent) you are trying to hide from, you can obtain phones with cash and make it very difficult to link them to you (use a sim card bought with cash and never give out that number, use a VOIP service for your primary number, use an OS that doesn't send back much telemetry, turn off location…

What will happen when hiding even small illegal activities becomes impossible?

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#54

Post by sva_ »

cronix wrote: post #8
mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

My understanding is they sell it, after the Israeli gov't (Israeli Defense Ministry) vets the sale. It is operated by the client. NSO has claimed they do not have any info on targets by the purchaser, and has no way to find out post-sale. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/interview-with-ceo-of-nso-group...

A german article[0] claimed that only a hashvalue of the telephone number is transmitted to NSO Group:

> "Das BKA hat nach Angaben der stellvertretenden Behördenleiterin sichergestellt, dass keine sensiblen Daten bei der Firma NSO landen würden. So würden Hashwerte für Telefonnummern vergeben, damit das Unternehmen die Zielpersonen nicht identifizieren könne."

They claim that this way the NSO Group would not be able to identify the victims. Obviously that is a fat lie, as a phone number hash could trivially be brute-forced, even on a home pc.

From the sounds of it, NSO Group does not give out the zeroday exploits, but rather do the dirty work of exploiting/infecting the victim themselves, and then hand over control. But the writing is pretty vague.

Seeing all these democratic countries, including my home country support this kind of stuff by buying their malware, is extremely disheartening to me, when there is clear evidence that it is being misused by authoritarian governments. It also makes me feel powerless.

[0] https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ndr-wdr/spaeh-softwar...

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#55

Post by [deleted] »

mijoharas wrote: post #3

So, what is the legality of this? I've not followed much about this at all, but NSO group appears to be an Israeli company. Do they just sell, or operate the hacking software for their clients? If they operate it, is it illegal for an Israeli company to hack an American citizen (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) Is the sale of hacking software regulated in any way?

[deleted]

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#56

Post by systemvoltage »

ruraljuror wrote: post #51
systemvoltage wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't get behind bifurcation of job market based on what political side you belong to. This seems destructive at best, dangerous at worse. It's like the classic Palantir vs Google argument. I won't hire anyone if they show any sort of activism at work.

Unless I am missing some irony in it, the last sentence contradicts the preceding claims. Denying activism ia activism itself; you are enforcing a reactionary culture.

It was deliberate and I realize it.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#57

Post by Epa095 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #46
newbie789 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is “not wanting to work with surveillance” an example of a political opinion from the left, or from the right? It kinda just seems like a personal preference.

Yea I mean how often do you come across a resume that has NSO on it. I am attacking the underlying tone of political activism in hiring committees. This seems deeply oppressive to me and signals 'internal rot' in corporations.

Do we somehow stop beeing moral beeing when we are at work? I thought that whole discussion were settled 65 years ago. But I notice that you are using the term "political activism", so maybe its rather that you find this particular cause not worthy of a real moral issue, its merely "political activism"? And if so, what causes would actually be important enough for you that you would consider them relevant for you, even at work?

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#58

Post by xxpor »

White_Wolf wrote: post #29
cronix wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I assume it is illegal in America, but how about Israel?) This part doesn't matter much in practicality. Like it is illegal for the US gov't to spy on their citizens. It is illegal for the UK to spy on their citizens. So the NSA made a deal with the UK. They spy on us, we spy on them, and exchange the info. There, the US didn't break the law and neither did the UK. They worked around it. We live in a shadowy world…

I'm not sure if this counts as spying but in UK they are allowed to monitor people to quite a large extent if I got this right. I think refusing to decrypt your device when requested is also punishable. https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance...

Yeah the whole "unwritten constitution" thing is very laughable, if we're honest. At least the US Federal gov has to pretend to care about the 4th and 5th amendments.

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#59

Post by a1369209993 »

atdt wrote: post #22

Forget Y Combinator -- come build the next great surveillance start-up at the IDF's Unit 8200, the world's greatest hacker school and incubator for mass surveillance start-ups. With generous subsidies from US taxpayers, Unit 8200 lets you level up your surveillance game by practicing on 4.5 million Palestinian beta-testers. (Go nuts, it's not like they can sue you!) Plus, say goodbye to those moral qualms -- at 8200,…

> the IDF's Unit 8200

Motto: "At least we're less evil than Unit 731, right?"

Re: NYT journalist hacked with Pegasus after reporting on previous hacking attempts

#60

Post by throwawayboise »

dpratt wrote: post #37
systemvoltage wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't get behind bifurcation of job market based on what political side you belong to. This seems destructive at best, dangerous at worse. It's like the classic Palantir vs Google argument. I won't hire anyone if they show any sort of activism at work.

This is not a political argument. If you willingly participate in the construction and deployment of technological systems that are designed to be used to monitor, suppress and ultimately threaten the physical security of people who are non-violently opposed to the current group of people in power, you have essentially declared yourself an enemy of mankind, and I choose to personally act accordingly.

Most of what Facebook and Google have developed could be used to do these things. In fact it has been used to do those things, perhaps with the exception of the physical threat. But monitor and suppress? Yes.

Is everyone who worked on this stuff also an enemy of mankind?

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