.NET Hot Reload Support via CLI • Hacker News Board

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#221

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:02 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #69

This is reductive, but I am going to repeat the idea that you should not be trusting Microsoft in the first place. Their GitHub acquisition, VSCode, and CodeSpaces are clearly a moat-building towards making GitHub yet another version of Office 365 where you have to pay $$$ for developer tools. GitHub's workflow already bears little resemblance to a "real" Git workflow, and in 7-10 more years I predict that they will…

>If not, that's fine too. I advise buying and using a Windows laptop for a first-class Microsoft Developer Experience

Thank you for your nice advice. I started following it 20 years ago (with some short but numerous tries to use Linux and BSD as desktops).

I use Windows desktops and laptops for all kind of development. Which is now mostly web microservices running under Kubernetes on Linux.

When I developed Android apps and multiplatform games (Android, iOS and Web), Windows was still my preferred development platform.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#222

Post by moonchrome » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

katbyte wrote: post #95

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.

I get the all products pack every year personally and it's worth every penny. One of the two software packages i break my "no subscriptions" rule for, and the only one i'm not even salty about doing so.

This - if you're a professional software developer you'll find value in the 200€/year package for their tools. They are just good all around.

My only gripe is not supporting remote development but it's in the works.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#223

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #30

I'm not sure what to feel On first hand it'd be weird to expect MS to do everything for free On the other hand the way they handled it (initially they made it free, OSS and promised fanciness) is kinda poor. On yet another hand maybe they just really sucked at communication, priorities and stuff this time? hard to say. On yet another hand2 .NET maintainers are really open about a lot of stuff, it's easy to talk to th…

Of course I don't expect them providing everything for free. But I expect them to stick to their promises and commitments and not to widraw a feature once they committed to make it available.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#224

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:11 AM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #92

Of course Julia was behind the removal of it. I'm so glad I'm not at Microsoft anymore. Her decisions might be great for Microsoft's profit margins, but my god does she hate people getting "stuff for free"

>Her decisions might be great for Microsoft's profit margins

On long term such decisions will hurt profit margins. I wouldn't hire managers that only think about short term, in an attempt to enlarge their bonuses.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#225

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:15 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #131

aaomidi wrote: post #92

Of course Julia was behind the removal of it. I'm so glad I'm not at Microsoft anymore. Her decisions might be great for Microsoft's profit margins, but my god does she hate people getting "stuff for free"

Open source leadership can only be handled well by people who have experienced and participated in Open Source. If Microsoft is serious about Open Source, they need to put in charge someone who's done this before. They have plenty of people who can lead this; Scott Hanselman, Miguel Icaza, Nat Friedman... Whoever approved this in the first place has shown a shocking level of incompetence in understanding how the deve…

Actually Miguel Icaza would be very good as a head of .NET development. He's not only managed to build a large open source code base but he also managed to win money from it. He's also a good developer, so he knows how to please developers.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#226

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #113

aaomidi wrote: post #92

Of course Julia was behind the removal of it. I'm so glad I'm not at Microsoft anymore. Her decisions might be great for Microsoft's profit margins, but my god does she hate people getting "stuff for free"

Hopefully, after this kerfuffle, she soon announces she has made the tough decision to seek new and exciting opportunities outside of Microsoft.

Oracle would love to welcome her to the team. :)

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#227

Post by kroltan » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #89

moogly wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many workloads (at least .NET), JetBrains Rider. For C/C++ on Windows, well, you have VS Code and also JetBrains CLion, but IMO CLion is surprisingly rougher than Rider, even though it's older. You can get stuff done though.

Rider is a non-starter - doesn't even have a community edition.

EAP is free, and the subscriptions also work as a one-time payment by giving you permanent access to the latest-at-subscription-start version when accruing a year's worth. So you can pay 1 year and not renew, and it's the same as just buying the thing.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#228

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

sbelskie wrote: post #4

Pretty encouraging sign given the drama the last few days. In addition to the community response, it’s pretty clear that a number of dotnet and MSFT team members went to bat hard for this. Really happy to see that they won out.

They won because the backlash from the .NET community.

And community should keep an eye on .NET development. If we want to keep the nice things we have, we should work towards it.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#229

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

DeathArrow wrote: post #212

pjmlp wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your world is vim and Emacs, coding like 1990's UNIX, sure. That are endless features on VS that VSCode will never get.

VS has enabled fast and lazy development for me. I don't have to memorize if a type has a method or property or what parameters a method has. I just type a dot and the IDE will tell me everything I need to know. It's good for concentrating on business logic instead of details of frameworks and libraries, but less good for interview questions if you come around people which have fixation on details.

And isn't that good? Living the dream of Xerox PARC tooling (as close as it gets).

I tend to disregard leetcode interviews anyway, unless I am on a deep need for a job without alternatives.

Re: .NET Hot Reload Support via CLI

#230

Post by DeathArrow » Sun, Oct 24, 2021, 9:27 AM UTC

skohan wrote: post #90

sedatk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's bad about not wanting to lose developer love?

The problem is they're showing they will behave as badly as they're allowed to. Not terribly good for trust if it takes backlash for them to act the right way.

At least they shoved that they can undo a bad decision if the community asks for it.

This reads like an apology and recognizing they've made a mistake: >We are always listening to our customers’ feedback to deliver on their needs. Thank you for making your feedback heard. We are sorry that we made so many community members upset via this change across many parameters including timing and execution.

>Our desire is to create an open and vibrant ecosystem for .NET. As is true with many companies, we are learning to balance the needs of OSS community and being a corporate sponsor for .NET. Sometimes we don’t get it right. When we don’t, the best we can do is learn from our mistakes and be better moving forward.

>Thank you for all of your feedback and your contributions over the years. We are committed to developing .NET in the open and look forward to continuing to work closely with the community.

>Thank you!

> Scott Hunter