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U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

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Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#51

Post by megablast »

mcantelon wrote: post #39
tlb wrote: post #35

Surprisingly swift justice. The average wait time for the crown court is 13-15 weeks [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Court ].

The law is certainly agile when representing the interests of the state, rather than citizens.

I think this is all about public perception, they are doing this to convince the public they are now in control, despite the fact that most people involved in the riots are free. I would not be surprised if this is appealed and changed to a more reasonable sentence, in a few months, when people are more calm.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#52

Post by megablast »

shazamjad wrote: post #19
andyking wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a crown court case, which is even more concerning. Crown court is used for serious offences which require a punishment of more than six months in prison, so for a case such as this to get from arrest to multi-year crown court sentence in a week is hugely concerning. A case has to first be heard in magistrates' court and handed to crown court, so it will have been in the hands of Chester Crown Court for just…

I wouldn't feel for those having justice dealt to them, not one bit. They not only participated in the riots - but made an effort to promote them. As for the woman who accepted stolen goods from her flatmate - she deserved it. The right course of action would've been to advise her flatmate to turn herself in and return the goods, or actually call the police herself. She decides to go through the stolen goods, picking…

Hyperbole much?

Where was the general population when this was going on? Sitting at home watching TV. This is a big problem with society.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#53

Post by megablast »

AndyJPartridge wrote: post #34
dave1010uk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison sentences, fines, comunity service, etc are already a deterrent to crime. These deterrents (and punishments) are considered proportionate to the crime by the judge/jury. I see no reason to single out rioting to be different, apart from emotional ones.

But it hasn't acted as a deterrent, has it. The first tiny window of opportunity these organised shoplifters had, they went for it. It wasn't rioting or a protest.

You are getting over excited. There are many opportunities to riot, that are not taken. This is no the "first tiny window of opportunity".

And once again, the police will cover up any wrong doing, close ranks, just as they did with Jean Charles de Mendez. This is not OK. This is not acceptable, for a police force to kill people, and hide. You can pretend that it has nothing to do with this, but all you will be doing is pretending to yourself to make yourself feel better.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#54

Post by shazamjad »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #27
shazamjad wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't feel for those having justice dealt to them, not one bit. They not only participated in the riots - but made an effort to promote them. As for the woman who accepted stolen goods from her flatmate - she deserved it. The right course of action would've been to advise her flatmate to turn herself in and return the goods, or actually call the police herself. She decides to go through the stolen goods, picking…

Having witnessed first hand the devastation and destruction in Hackney - most small business owners who lost pretty much their whole lively hoods would state that the sentences being handed out aren't enough - and I whole heartedly agree. How many of those small businessmen shook their heads but did nothing over happy slappers and countless other creeping failures of the rule of law? Civilizations don't fall because…

Couldn't agree more - in fact a group actually did stand up to them:

http://hackneycitizen.co.uk/2011/08/09/turkish-shopkeepers-s...

It's only recently in the UK that the law now favours the right to defend yourself and your property; before there was a perception of criminals having more rights having broken into your home than you ever did.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#55

Post by shazamjad »

jacquesm wrote: post #46
shazamjad wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't feel for those having justice dealt to them, not one bit. They not only participated in the riots - but made an effort to promote them. As for the woman who accepted stolen goods from her flatmate - she deserved it. The right course of action would've been to advise her flatmate to turn herself in and return the goods, or actually call the police herself. She decides to go through the stolen goods, picking…

Right, because everybody knows that taking a mother away from her children for five months to punish her for accepting a pair of pants that she didn't steal is justice. Really, I hope you have receipts for every item you've ever received from someone else. Sure, these riots are wrong on many levels but this is totally disproportionate.

Definitely a harsh ruling against her - but considering the legal system I doubt she'll spend any time in a prison cell.

Then there's a very touchy matter of wether you really want kids being brought up by a mother who clearly turns a blind eye to rioting / looting, and indirectly even partakes in criminal activity (knowingly handling stolen goods).

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#56

Post by jellicle »

nitrogen wrote: post #41
sfk wrote: post #3

Much better article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/16/facebook-riot-calls... "Perry Sutcliffe-Keenan, 22, of Latchford, Warrington, used his Facebook account in the early hours of 9 August to design a web page entitled The Warrington Riots. The court was told it caused a wave of panic in the town. When he woke up the following morning with a hangover, he removed the page and apologised, saying it had been a j…

There are a number of technological misrepresentations in your quotation that would seem inconsequential to the average judge or journalist, but actually make a huge difference in meaning and effect: ...used his Facebook account...to design a web page... The word "design" implies stronger intent and effort than is actually required to post an event to Facebook. "Web page" is not typically used to refer to user-genera…

So the guy posted a Facebook event, inviting people to the riots. Humorous, funny, probably took all of three minutes to accomplish, no harm done, four years in prison.

Meanwhile the banksters who have stolen billions from the public treasury have not even been charged, and won't be.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#57

Post by abstractbill »

shazamjad wrote: post #48
bugsy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also should arrest all the people in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya who rioted in their countries this year as well. Disorder must not be tolerated! Government power above all else! Bow before your gods, peasants!

There's rioting for the sake of a rebellion, hopefully leading to a revolution. Then there's rioting for the sake of looting and causing damage, nothing more.

Of course I agree that the UK riots were not the former, but I hope you see the problem with trusting the government to decide which one is which, and giving them special powers to punish people who riot (over and above the criminal acts of destruction that can already be punished under existing laws).

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#58

Post by jellicle »

nkh wrote: post #18

Can someone from the UK comment on if 4-year sentences are typically served to full term. I believe in America, you can be sentenced to 4 years and only end up doing a few months of the actual sentence.

Most people in the U.S. serve about 50-70% of their sentence behind bars. Stop watching Fox News. Parole conditions, if granted, are often onerous.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#59

Post by AndyJPartridge »

megablast wrote: post #53
AndyJPartridge wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it hasn't acted as a deterrent, has it. The first tiny window of opportunity these organised shoplifters had, they went for it. It wasn't rioting or a protest.

You are getting over excited. There are many opportunities to riot, that are not taken. This is no the "first tiny window of opportunity". And once again, the police will cover up any wrong doing, close ranks, just as they did with Jean Charles de Mendez. This is not OK. This is not acceptable, for a police force to kill people, and hide. You can pretend that it has nothing to do with this, but all you will be doing…

I don't feel I am getting over exited.

A protest about an unfortunate incident led to some people throwing stuff at the Police. This escalated.

Others then saw this as an opportunity to go looting in other towns.

Bringing up Jean Charles de Mendez at this point in time makes no sense at all. We have no idea what happened to Mark Duggan exactly yet.

Re: U.K. men get 4-year sentences for Facebook riot posts

#60

Post by shabble »

cellis wrote: post #4

Make a post on Facebook, get sentenced to the Men of the Night's Watch. Steal two scoops of ice cream, get your hand cut off!

ObRacistJoke:

Australian Immigration Officer: Do you have any prior criminal convictions?

Tourist: I didn't realise that it was still a requirement.

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