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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

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Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#71

Post by nyIXfKmM84f1OPr »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

> It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive around in a vehicle that records everything, stores everything, and gives opaque data access to the parent company.

How does this give anyone more data on me than is already out there based on the cellphone in my pocket and the use of my credit/debit cards? Even if Tesla didn't collect it the LTE signal of the car is enough to track me when I leave my phone at home.

And if you don't have Tesla and your car has something like OnStar it can do this too.

All I see are people making a mountain out of a mole hill. The data on my accelerator pedal is not a threat to my privacy or freedom.

The massive number of safety features in this car are a net benefit for my physical safety, though. The number of times I've avoided collisions because the car took action when people I couldn't see were about to hit me is worth every penny.

I will never buy another car without the Tesla standard set of features ever again. I used to avoid doing things because of a long drive as I hate the fatigue. Now I don't even blink at the idea of going 300 miles for an event.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#72

Post by ctvo »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #66
ctvo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an explanation that doesn't require such giant leaps: they want to capture as much data as possible in case they ever need it and know there's nothing stopping them, so why not.

I'm not really sure where the giant leaps are. Fact 1: Tesla is attempting to develop a self-driving system that is based on machine learning. Fact 2: Training machine learning systems requires training data. Having large amounts of real training data is highly desirable. So a single step? I'm sure that Tesla also benefits from being able to defend against false claims that would tarnish their image[1], but please do…

The giant leap is Tesla is an AI company. Most companies gather data if they can, you wouldn't call them an AI company. A concrete example: Amazon, Walmart, and Target collect a lot of data on their respective ecommerce websites. Are they AI companies? They also and use train machine learning models.

Tesla is trying to fix left turn regressions [1] in an if statement it introduced with its latest over the air update. Working on getting an iteratively better lane / cruise control assist is something many auto companies are doing, and that also doesn't make them AI companies.

1 - https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1451907229796417542

Edit:

By the way, here's Elon re: machine learning and Tesla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyqw3EMCckU

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#73

Post by spfzero »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12

> The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage, and depending on how the vehicle is used, that data can be stored for over a year. Tesla really seems to have an extreme amount of personal data capture combined with always-on remote access. It’s fascinating to watch people swear off Amazon Echo and delete their Facebook over privacy concerns but then proudly drive ar…

Those data items, speed and control position, don't seem equivalent to the data Google, Amazon and Facebook collect. They do seem like legitimate telemetry on a machine operated by a human though. If my pedal position differs from someone else's, that tells you nothing about me other than that was where the pedal was.

Those tell Tesla nothing about my personal habits, my political leanings, who my friends are, what organizations I donate to or participate in, etc.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#76

Post by mehrdada »

pengaru wrote: post #35
wrkronmiller wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends a lot on the car and the engine. If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android.

> If you want a high-performance engine that meets modern emissions requirements, you're probably going to be looking at EFI and turbochargers. Changing the fuel injection maps on a modern car requires something akin to rooting/flashing an Android. It's also federally illegal , I don't know why you've veered this thread into ease of performing illegal modifications.

Not everyone lives in your jurisdiction. I don’t know why you would be quick to police the discussion, as talking about how something works is done does not mean you intend to do it (and is well within the scope of “Hacker” News).

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#77

Post by capableweb »

ectopod wrote: post #16
capableweb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general comment, but I don't think any of those things can be classified as "personal data". How are you gonna identify a user based on values from those parameters? GDPR, while not perfect, describes "personal data" to be: > The data subjects are identifiable if they can be directly or indirectly identified, especially by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location…

From the preceding paragraph: > Personal data are any information which are related to an identified or identifiable natural person. Tesla already knows who you are so any data they capture is personal data.

> Tesla already knows who you are so any data they capture is personal data.

That's not how that works. Just because IP is personal data doesn't mean that the event "user clicked on this button" is personal data...

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#78

Post by specialist »

kjaftaedi wrote: post #6
fny wrote: post #3

Can someone provide some color on why a state actor would advertise such a feat? Now that this is public, I imagine Tesla can and likely will work to block access.

They are using it in court cases, so it would not be a secret anyway. The issue was that Tesla was only providing certain data that was being asked for. You wouldn't know that it would be possible to ask for more information, unless you knew they were collecting it. Now they know Tesla has this information they should be able to get it from them regardless if they have to decrypt it themselves or not. (Unless Tesla d…

> You wouldn't know that it would be possible to ask for more information, unless you knew they were collecting it.

Totally. I've played this game with FOIA (public records requests). It's exhausting. Of course they had the data. But as a private citizen, I had to prove they had the data before I could request it.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#80

Post by hungryforcodes »

speedgoose wrote: post #40
hungryforcodes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though none of those cars track my personal data in the extreme or in fact at all. Remember the point of the GP thread...

In case of a crash, I rather have my butt position being tracked and in palantir's databases or equivalent than having the engine block crushing my body.

I have no idea why these are mutually exclusive and no I'd rather die in a flaming car accident than have myself tracked in Palentir's databases. Fortunately, I don't have a car-- nor need one -- so this is a pleasant day.
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