An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion • Hacker News Board

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#291

Post by rileymat2 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

syngrog66 wrote: post #279

harry8 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only PR. Compared with what came before and what was competing with it in those days google search was terrific. Finding more of what you wanted faster. Clean interface. Ads off to the side clearly identified. People just felt good about using google product. That's a great place to start any PR. People's affection for polish of Apple Product compared with horrible machines most have been forced to use in pod far…

US intel community assessed that Wikileaks was a thin front/wrapper for Russian intelligence operations intended to harm the US and allies. A kind of "launderer" at best for docs that Russian hackers or agents would steal or forge. Assange was the key guy behind Wikileaks. Therefore, Assange is... neither credible or honorable.

“steal or forge”

There is a huge difference between those two. Would be interesting to know how much was “forged.” At one point I thought they tried to vet the dumps pretty well to maintain credibility.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#292

Post by mysterydip » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #280

mysterydip wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I started a new job, one thing in orientation was "the 'e' in 'e-mail' stands for 'evidence'."

Isn’t that a huge red flag as an employee for that to be in orientation? It would make me want to put everything in writing in case they did sketchy shit.

Accountability is half the point, actually. For example, if there's a coworker you know promises verbally then later says that never happend or they don't remember, get it in email. Likewise if you want to be sure you're on the record of "I don't agree with this idea."

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#293

Post by ctvo » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

throwawaycuriou wrote: post #250

ctvo wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop with this meme? I've seen it now twice in this thread and across the boarder Google threads today. The hiring process is this way for the entire industry. Multiple startups have failed trying to move it away from its current incarnation of technical phone screen -> technical on-site, where the majority of technical questions asked are data structures, algorithms, and system design based. Implying that the…

Binary trees during the hiring process for software engineers is not a part of the entire industry. I'd be surprised if it was even the majority. But it is prevalent, and posts pop up here regularly disparaging it. Places lean into Google's way of doing things by default without demonstrating that it leads to positive outcomes _for their business_. Google themselves do it due to no small part to compensate for the pi…

> Binary trees during the hiring process for software engineers is not a part of the entire industry. I'd be surprised if it was even the majority. But it is prevalent, and posts pop up here regularly disparaging it.

Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, Apple, LinkedIn, Microsoft, Snap, RobinHood, Walmart, Twilio, Uber, DoorDash, ... (we can continue down the list of US / western technology companies here for quite some time), all ask technical questions following the standard data structures, algorithms and system design format. They don't specifically ask for binary trees, but Google doesn't specifically ask that question either. There is no standard for the entire industry, but this method is common, to pretend otherwise is disingenuous .

> Places lean into Google's way of doing things by default without demonstrating that it leads to positive outcomes _for their business_. Google themselves do it due to no small part to compensate for the pitfalls of getting as big as they have. Pointing out that what they do is ubiquitous and inherently optimal is conflating scale with success.

There are multiple assumptions here on your part. One is that this is something that occurs due to scale. Please prove it. The on-site process outlined takes engineering time, and is costly. It's multiple hours long, brings in multiple engineers, and requires lengthy discussions afterwards. Surely there's something that scales better if that were the motivation here?

The second assumption is places blindly follow Google's lead, with no further analysis on their own if it' beneficial to their business. This is mindbogglingly presumptuous considering the million / billion / trillion dollar companies with highly capable engineering / HR leaders on that list. You obviously know better than them with the data they've collected?

The above is outside my original point: This thread is not a question of engineering ability. It's a systemic management failure. Latching on to anything negative re: Google / Big Tech to vent your frustrated at the hiring process, and how see! it lets in those who aren't intelligent, capable, etc. is a reflection of your own emotional state.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#294

Post by raydev » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

zffr wrote: post #104

mattowen_uk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! Why DO people insist on posting essays as 1,001 tweets!? The mind boggles.

I think because Twitter is where their audience is. As annoying as it is to read on Twitter, posting it as multiple tweets also allows people to like/retweet individual and multiple parts of the essay which probably increases the essay’s overall reach/engagement.

Yep, people who are interested can immediately and directly engage with the author of the thread on any single point.

Medium had the right idea allowing people to highlight specific items in a post and comment on them, but I think people prefer a forum over long form articles.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#295

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:48 PM UTC

tfehring wrote: post #288

bsenftner wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking about the relationship between the employer and the employee. That is the unfair relationship which Capitalism is dependent and is imperative they control the information of their participants.

I'm not sure that unequal relationship between employer and employee is a feature of capitalism per se - even in a market socialist system in which labor receives all that it produces, any individual worker depends on their employer more heavily than their employer depends on them, so you still have an imbalance of power. I also don't think it's really relevant here, since Google and Facebook employees are about the…

> I'm not sure that unequal relationship between employer and employee is a feature of capitalism per se

It is.

It is also a feature, to a greater or lesser extent, of many systems that are downstream descendants of capitalism and haven’t replaced the elements that produce that feature.

It is also a feature of the upstream immediate predecessor of capitalism (feudalism, in which control of the means of production is unified with land ownership and typically executive, and often judicial and legislative, power over those on it) in an even starker form.

> even in a market socialist system

“even”? Market socialism is a very close relative and (conceptually) descendant of capitalism, not some distant and opposed system.

> in which labor receives all that it produces, any individual worker depends on their employer more heavily than their employer depends on them, so you still have an imbalance of power.

In market socialism, the employer is an agent of the employees, who (in many versions) each individually hold guaranteed rights with respect to it much the same as citizens of a liberal democratic regime do against the State. Both the universal elimination of the employer fundamentally serving an interest outside of its employees and also the common (but not universal, “market socialism” is a broad category with lots of variations) guarantees of individual rights to employees exist specifically to mitigate the adverse effects of the employer/employee power balance that it retains from capitalism.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#296

Post by jjulius » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:51 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #24

polytely wrote: post #10

Google seriously needs to be broken up into small pieces or disolved entirely. Their leadership just cannot be be trusted and the internet would be better off without them around.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

Fine, break it up and let the chips fall where they may. So many people on HN like to tout that if businesses don't have a market, or a product people want, or whatever, then they should fail. Why should Alphabet's numerous companies be any different?

There would be a net benefit to the world that would absolutely outweigh the collateral damage of that relatively small handful of people losing their jobs.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#297

Post by shadowgovt » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

mattzito wrote: post #277

paulpauper wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a decade...how many ppl work at google for so long?

A surprising number - sure, google has turnover like everyone else, but in general I am always surprised at how many people have 5+ years of tenure. I work with a number of people where google is the only place they have ever worked, which is downright odd to me.

They take very good care of their staff.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#298

Post by eclipxe » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

nodejs_rulez_1 wrote: post #65

matsemann wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a xoogler used to be something to put in your profile bio, and basically an instant hire if in your CV. Now it almost carries a stigma.

Man, I don't know, if you need some binary trees inverted on a whiteboard, they are still the go-to folks.

Inverting a binary tree isn't particularly hard.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#299

Post by paulluuk » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

MildlySerious wrote: post #273

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

> Which employers are the “nice company making nice things and you’ll be able to sleep at night” tech companies nowadays? Stripe, maybe?

I've heard good things about Valve

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#300

Post by paulluuk » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #248

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

Unionize anywhere you work. That's the way not to feel bad.

As much as I like unions, I don't think that they prevent companies from doing bad things to the public, just to their employees.