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Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

reuters.com

51–60 of 115 posts

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#51
> The NFI said the decrypted data showed Tesla vehicles store information about the operation of its driver assistance system, known as Autopilot. The vehicles also record speed, accelerator pedal position, steering wheel angle and brake usage

Aren’t these the same things twitter.com/greentheonly publishes very often?

Example: https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1431094320296235008

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#52
post #12
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a 1998 United States copyright law." Last time I checked the Netherlands was a different country. lol By the way: https://www.websiteplanet.com/blog/dmca-ignored-countries/

DMCA is just a letter format for removal of content per U.S. law. Any country that observes copyright (they are apart of the WTO) is expected to comply with other member nations' copyrights. All developed countries have also adopted the Berne Convention.

The whole point of DMCA is that it's a relatively recent extensions/addition to the copyright law that USA had before, which matched the Berne convention.

The non-DMCA parts of copyright are pretty much the same in USA as across the whole world, as they have been harmonized with international treaties. The extra requirements of DMCA (e.g. restrictions on circumventing technical measures of copyright protection), however, are country-specific and not widespread elsewhere.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#54
post #41

I just read some Dutch news sources to get some more context. Some things to know: Tesla hands over all requested data in case of an investigation. But only the requested data. Because we now know what data is stored more data can and will be requested in the future. The crash was caused by the driver because he thought lane assistance was turned on but only adaptive cruise control was turned on. This caused the vehi…

Why would the request for "any and all data" not yield ALL of the data in the first place?

Is it because you must request specific data? Is making a request for all data from the manufacturer not allowed?

Am I missing something here?

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#55
post #44
post #41

I just read some Dutch news sources to get some more context. Some things to know: Tesla hands over all requested data in case of an investigation. But only the requested data. Because we now know what data is stored more data can and will be requested in the future. The crash was caused by the driver because he thought lane assistance was turned on but only adaptive cruise control was turned on. This caused the vehi…

> So the question about this accident is: how obvious is it for the driver what is going on and what assistance to expect. - you have to deliberately turn the full assistance on/off - there are audio cues when it turns on, and whilst it’s on, and when it turns off - the visuals on the screen are different when it’s on vs. off - the steering wheel feels very different when it’s on - when it’s on, there are regular cue…

So we're down to small UI differences on the dashboard, and having the driver notice the control forces...

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#56
post #26

I’m assuming Tesla don’t give you the source code to their cars. Does anyone? I’d love to have a car that can be taken apart and put back together — the engine and the UI. Not because I have the skill or shop needed to do maintenance, but because at least I stand a chance of paying someone else to. Right now it feels like I’m dealing with a bunch of pirates. I either pay $800 to hack an HDMI cable into my Audi’s virt…

I don't see an issue with source code, nor intellectual property or similar, it is all about recorded data, the whole point is that Tesla, requested according to the Law to provide the recorded data (decrypted) provided only a (small) subset of such data and the guys from the NFI managed to decrypt the whole stuff, finding out that Tesla omitted data useful to establish the reasons of the crash. It also seems that -…

[deleted]

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#57

I’m assuming Tesla don’t give you the source code to their cars. Does anyone? I’d love to have a car that can be taken apart and put back together — the engine and the UI. Not because I have the skill or shop needed to do maintenance, but because at least I stand a chance of paying someone else to. Right now it feels like I’m dealing with a bunch of pirates. I either pay $800 to hack an HDMI cable into my Audi’s virt…

No, sadly there is no open source car avaiable (I think some designs exist, coming from univerisies, but nothing you could buy anywhere) I suppose consumers, tuners and repair shops would love it. But I do not see any big company ever going into that direction. It would be interesting, how it could avoid the patent madness. I assume EVERYTHING with cars is patented.

>But I do not see any big company ever going into that direction.

IBM did that with PC architecture and it had profound impact on technology, business and world as a whole I believe.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#58

I’m assuming Tesla don’t give you the source code to their cars. Does anyone? I’d love to have a car that can be taken apart and put back together — the engine and the UI. Not because I have the skill or shop needed to do maintenance, but because at least I stand a chance of paying someone else to. Right now it feels like I’m dealing with a bunch of pirates. I either pay $800 to hack an HDMI cable into my Audi’s virt…

[deleted]

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#59

Frankly I feel that for this kind of investication (car crashes and accidents) the manufacturer should be required to hand over all data relevant to the investigation. On device logs are probably the most relevant data you could get in these cases. That this lab decided to try to decipher the data, and found troves of it that wasn't known to exist before, speaks to how the relationship must be. They didn't trust Tesl…

I’d go further, and say that the data should be exportable in a predefined format (ideally an open standard), so that investigators can use 3rd party tools to investigate any make of ‘smart car’.

Re: Dutch forensic lab says it has decoded Tesla's driving data

#60
post #54
post #41

I just read some Dutch news sources to get some more context. Some things to know: Tesla hands over all requested data in case of an investigation. But only the requested data. Because we now know what data is stored more data can and will be requested in the future. The crash was caused by the driver because he thought lane assistance was turned on but only adaptive cruise control was turned on. This caused the vehi…

Why would the request for "any and all data" not yield ALL of the data in the first place? Is it because you must request specific data? Is making a request for all data from the manufacturer not allowed? Am I missing something here?

I am not sure. Maybe the law states you can only investigate what you need to investigate. Climate control and music volume settings might be irrelevant.
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