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Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

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Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#311

Post by fouric »

md8z wrote: post #307
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe people are actually comparing telemetry in Windows to Linux. I'm not surprised - at least some of these people are Microsoft employees so it's no wonder they try to use the same strategy as always - fear, uncertainty and doubt. After all, if people start believing that "Linux also has telemetry", why even consider switching? Actually I'm happy to hear it from the mouth of Microsoft employees (especi…

There's no FUD. Ubuntu actually does have telemetry. KDE does too. It may not be quite the same in implementation as Microsoft's telemetry, but it is there. There is also nothing to be afraid of here either, the effects of it and how to use it are all spelled out clearly in the respective privacy policies. https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy https://community.kde.org/Telemetry_Use "Why even consider switching" is t…

> Ubuntu actually does have telemetry. KDE does too.

Ahh, yes, Ubuntu and KDE = Linux. Very logical.

> It may not be quite the same in implementation as Microsoft's telemetry, but it is there.

There can be a world of difference between telemetry implementations. Debian's popcount, for instance, is opt-in - Windows' are mostly (if not all) opt-out. Ubuntu and KDE send their data to organizations that I trust - Windows do not. Ubuntu and KDE's telemetry remain off when I turn it off - Windows' does not. I know exactly what data KDE collects, because it's spelled out in that page you linked - I don't know what data Windows or Ubuntu collect.

Given the extreme variance in telemetry implementations, trying to falsely equivocate Windows and Linux telemetry is FUD.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#312

Post by IshKebab »

jdlyga wrote: post #2

The real reasons I use Linux are mostly out of convenience. For example, updating all my software and OS using one command rather than clicking on 50 updaters.

I've never heard anyone advocate Linux out of convenience! Windows is way more convenient overall even if it doesn't have a package manager because you spend so much less time dealing with hardware and compatibility issues.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#313

Post by wayneftw »

pjmlp wrote: post #290
wayneftw wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, gee well I thought we were on a developer/techie forum. McDonald's is also one of the most popular restaurants. I eat there once in a while. I still run Windows boxes to play games too. And it's more like ~30% for Windows when you measure against all operating systems , not just the desktop ones. [0] Android is the top dog since at least October 2020 when it went to over ~40%. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-ma…

Android runs ART + C and C++ NDK APIs, the fact that there is a Linux kernel underneath matters zero to app developers.

Of course. But the fact that I was pointing out was that the Windows percentage is actually quite small in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#314

Post by fouric »

Kessler83 wrote: post #252
CaioAlonso wrote: post #5

As a counterpoint: Reasons to consider NOT switching to Linux https://corn.codeberg.page/notlinux.html

I'm surprised you can't see that this counter-article is just plain old FUD. It should be a no-brainer that an operative system that is free, open, democratic, well documented and consisting of over 50,000 quality software packages---Debian, for example---is better than an OS which isn't any of those things. Of course software is (also) about ideology. If you find yourself advocating putting more money in the pockets…

> I'm surprised you can't see that this counter-article is just plain old FUD.

Content-less emotional manipulation - just the kind of thing that I hate to see on HN.

You answered none of the points in the article itself, dismissing the entire thing out of hand with an acronym describing a concept that you provided no evidence actually applied to any of the arguments.

> It should be a no-brainer that an operative system that is free, open, democratic, well documented and consisting of over 50,000 quality software packages---Debian, for example---is better than an OS which isn't any of those things.

No. I've been using Linux as my daily driver for over a decade (and have spent far more time using it than Windows), and gotten a few other people on it, so I can say that, for actually getting things done and software just working, Windows is far better than Linux. An operating system where you have to struggle to get things done is a bad operating system.

Linux isn't "democratic", either - Linus Torvalds controls kernel development, and the userspace components have wildly differing development practices.

Nor is it "well documented" - Linux-related documentation is generally terrible to read. Technically correct? Sure - but that's not "well documented", that's an encyclopedia.

Neither can you say that those "50,000" software packages are "quality" - the vast majority of open-source software that I've seen is buggy, under-documented, incomplete, and difficult to use. (I mean, so is the vast majority of proprietary software - but that software being "also bad" doesn't make OSS software "good")

> Of course software is (also) about ideology. [...] well then obviously you have picked sides.

Please leave your manipulative speech out of HN, and don't try to drag me (or anyone) into your idealistic flamewar.

Microsoft is a company that is predatory towards its users, and that's why I recommend Linux despite all of its problems. Pretending that it has no problems, or is technically superior to Windows, and then piling on inflammatory dialog, does nobody any good.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#315

Post by stronglikedan »

pstrateman wrote: post #108
LegitShady wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

last time I installed windows 10 this wasn't required - you just had to figure out which button took you past it. Maybe its changed since

It has, you need to disable internet access to have a local account.

I'm currently using two laptops, both running Win 10 with local-only accounts, and I've never had to disable internet access to do so.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#316

Post by danShumway »

pjmlp wrote: post #216
wayneftw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another one of these comments. When XP came out, people were switching to Linux. When Vista came out, people were switching to Linux. When 8.x came out, people were switching to Linux. When 10 came out, people were switching to Linux. Now Windows 11 came out, naturally people are still switching to Linux. Guess what? People are going to continue switching platforms and talking about it. Oh and 25% of developers a…

Still good enough to power about 85% of desktop computers worldwide, one games console and game streaming service, all of which also need developers.

I don't understand what you're getting at. When you develop for Xbox, do you connect a keyboard to your Xbox and launch Visual Studio directly on the console?

What do the Xbox or XCloud have to do with developer marketshare? They're targets, not development platforms. Are you arguing that the Stackoverflow stats are wrong?

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#317

Post by fouric »

fouric wrote: post #270
filmgirlcw wrote: post #186

Disclosure: I'm a developer advocate at Microsoft with a focus on Linux, I am typing this on a laptop running Windows 11 (it also has another SSD that runs Linux), and I'm a diehard Mac user. I hate this sort of SEO-driven clickbait that is trying to inflame wars that frankly, were settled two decades ago. Use Linux. Use Windows. Use macOS. Use Chrome OS. Use OpenBSD. Use Haiku. If you're a complete masochist, use GN…

> that frankly, were settled two decades ago No, it wasn't. Windows didn't have a camera, TPM, TPM 2.0, and mandatory Microsoft online account requirements two decades ago, nor did it come "bundled" with Cortana, Teams, advertisements in your Start menu , Windows Defender, forced/"highly incentivized" OS updates, loads of dark patterns meant to try to get you to use a Microsoft account or switch to Edge, and telemetr…

Postscript: all comments adjacent to "I'm disappointed to see x on HN" is absolutely against the ethos of the site and intellectual discussion in general - please never use it here.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#318

Post by ginko »

dustymcp wrote: post #274
ginko wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first 10 reasons don't matter, really. Windows is proprietary software and should be avoided on ethical grounds just for that.

So software cant be monetized how do you make a living?

You can get paid for producing open source software you know..

It’s actually kind of shocking that people don’t know this these days. Have corporations really undermined free software so much?

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#319

Post by md8z »

fouric wrote: post #311
md8z wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no FUD. Ubuntu actually does have telemetry. KDE does too. It may not be quite the same in implementation as Microsoft's telemetry, but it is there. There is also nothing to be afraid of here either, the effects of it and how to use it are all spelled out clearly in the respective privacy policies. https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privacy https://community.kde.org/Telemetry_Use "Why even consider switching" is t…

> Ubuntu actually does have telemetry. KDE does too. Ahh, yes, Ubuntu and KDE = Linux. Very logical. > It may not be quite the same in implementation as Microsoft's telemetry, but it is there. There can be a world of difference between telemetry implementations. Debian's popcount, for instance, is opt-in - Windows' are mostly (if not all) opt-out. Ubuntu and KDE send their data to organizations that I trust - Windows…

"Ahh, yes, Ubuntu and KDE = Linux."

In this case, yes. Ubuntu and KDE are two major players in desktop Linux. There really is not anything stopping Linux vendors from using telemetry, and in fact I'd expect them to use more of it in the event their products get more popular.

"Debian's popcount, for instance, is opt-in - Windows' are mostly (if not all) opt-out."

This is a minor detail and I don't think it actually matters. If a company actually needs that data and is not getting it from that telemetry then they're getting it from somewhere else. For example Canonical builds products on Debian and doesn't use popcon, they use other data collection mechanisms, which are detailed in the privacy policy I posted.

"Ubuntu and KDE send their data to organizations that I trust"

This has nothing to do with the implementation. Plus, Microsoft's dedicated customers do trust Microsoft to similar degree, so this is not going to be convincing to them. You need a better selling point.

"Ubuntu and KDE's telemetry remain off when I turn it off - Windows' does not."

That sounds to me like a bug or glitch that someone should fix. Ubuntu or KDE could also manifest such bugs, I guess we're just lucky they haven't.

"I don't know what data Windows or Ubuntu collect"

It's possible to change that. You can just read the Ubuntu privacy policy that I posted. Windows also has a similar privacy policy, you should do a search for it if you're interested.

"trying to falsely equivocate Windows and Linux telemetry is FUD"

Actually I have not done this, I mentioned they're different, and I explicitly explained how you shouldn't be afraid, uncertain or doubting anything. In a lot of cases (including some you mentioned) telemetry is not actually bad, and Windows users may feel that it's not bad for them either. I can give you more details if you need them. Please just don't misuse the phrase "FUD" like this.

Re: Reasons to switch from Windows to Linux

#320

Post by md8z »

fouric wrote: post #270
filmgirlcw wrote: post #186

Disclosure: I'm a developer advocate at Microsoft with a focus on Linux, I am typing this on a laptop running Windows 11 (it also has another SSD that runs Linux), and I'm a diehard Mac user. I hate this sort of SEO-driven clickbait that is trying to inflame wars that frankly, were settled two decades ago. Use Linux. Use Windows. Use macOS. Use Chrome OS. Use OpenBSD. Use Haiku. If you're a complete masochist, use GN…

> that frankly, were settled two decades ago No, it wasn't. Windows didn't have a camera, TPM, TPM 2.0, and mandatory Microsoft online account requirements two decades ago, nor did it come "bundled" with Cortana, Teams, advertisements in your Start menu , Windows Defender, forced/"highly incentivized" OS updates, loads of dark patterns meant to try to get you to use a Microsoft account or switch to Edge, and telemetr…

As someone who has been using and hacking on Linux for pretty long time and doesn't even use Windows, none of what you said is particularly alarming, and I don't think there are any significant changes that happened in the last few years to warrant any changes in one's outlook. I heard similar comments from the Slashdot crowd when Windows Vista and Windows 8 came out, about how Microsoft is fucking everything up and this is the end for them. And those products were probably much worse than Windows 11 from a perspective of being bad for the user, and just being bad products in general. But in the end nothing happened.

But even if they did fuck up badly, the fact is, the "Linux desktop" is still a bad platform that people don't want to use. The APIs suck and are too fragmented, the developer experience is confusing, the documentation is bad and often missing, the story around packaging and shipping is dreadful, it's just all around not good. There are so many little bits of polish that need to go into something like that to make it really good, and the Linux community has never been able to do that at the scale it needs to be done at to make it competitive with Microsoft. Yes I know there are people working on all of those things but their progress is extremely slow. (I know because I'm one of those people.) You might think I'm being defeatist but honestly this is the way it's always been. Most open source projects are just understaffed and underfunded, and nothing about this has changed in the last 20 years. That's my experience anyway. If you talk to more app developers then you'll probably hear the same complaints.

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