Willingness to look stupid • Hacker News Board

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#741

Post by hunterb123 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

Redoubts wrote: post #731

hunterb123 wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC, LA, Oakland, Baltimore, Portland, and Minneapolis at least https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9625629/REFUND-poli...

> The Democratic mayors of New York City, Baltimore and Los Angeles are among those now backpedaling on their vows So they didn't actually do anything.

Some cities did defund in their budget, then reversed and refunded.

Some cities backpedalled on their promise to defund and added to the budget instead.

The existence of the latter scenario does not nullify the former.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#742

Post by nimbius » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #360

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

One of the best people I've ever worked with used this approach. "I'm going to ask stupid questions now." and "Just so I'm understanding the problem, ." were two phrases she used all the time . I am surprised at how difficult it has been to emulate her technique. Feeling comfortable asking the obvious questions is one half of the battle, but the other, more difficult half, is knowing what obvious questions to ask. Mo…

the problem with this approach is that it makes building trust very difficult, as trust is based on a combination of character and competence.

inquisitiveness during problem solving is admirable and good, but in the article many of the applications of 'looking stupid' only serve to render the author untrustworthy.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#743

Post by sidlls » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

joeberon wrote: post #153

blfr wrote: post #130

As a man, every condescending comment you get in person only tells you one thing: your deadlift PR is still too low. Get jacked and all these problems disappear. No matter how silly your questions and objections, no matter how dumb they may think you are, all your concerns will be treated very seriously, criticism couched in most polite terms, and weird stuff written off as eccentric. (It helps to be taller, well-dre…

Are these seriously the quality of comments we are happy with on Hackernews these days?

I've spent the majority of my career having plenty of my own ideas, thoughts, and opinions ignored only to see them seriously considered when echoed by taller, fitter, and more attractive male peers.

Software engineers and computer scientists like to think they're above this stuff, but they aren't.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#744

Post by eranation » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

Making “asking stupid questions” socially acceptable can solve SO MANY issues. Being able to politely say what everyone is thinking and not keep things to blow later is also probably the way for world peace. (Or world war 3…)

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#745

Post by sidlls » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

joeberon wrote: post #454

blfr wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being treated poorly compounds, just like the fear of looking stupid. Especially in the dating market.

You sound like an incel. Anyone who cares about this stuff is already weak.

Attractive people generally illicit more empathy and cooperation in work settings, and are generally more successful in their careers, than those of average or below average physical appearance.

It's not the mark of an "incel" to take note and think this is important.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#746

Post by onekorg » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

sam_goody wrote: post #117

josephg wrote: post #36

After a terrible breakup years ago I took a trapeze class. Before we got up on the trapeze bar, I spent most of the class telling everyone how bad I was going to be at it. When I got home I lay in bed confused. Why did I do that? This article is spot on. I was afraid of being seen to be bad at something. Have you noticed? We spend almost our entire adult lives doing things we’re good at. Anything we do that we’re bad…

There is a pretty well known speaker who wrote about his first public speech. He was to record himself, and it would listened to by some 5,000 people. He spent hours and hours re-recording himself, until a older friend stopped by and laughed at him, as follows: "You are being nervous because you think that you might not be perfect, and doubt creates a feeling of nervousness and unsurety. Well, I can dispel the doubt.…

I am starting to teach at my local University and this was just the thing I needed to read. Thanks a lot Sam.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#747

Post by datameta » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

mnsc wrote: post #707

mywittyname wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the best people I've ever worked with used this approach. "I'm going to ask stupid questions now." and "Just so I'm understanding the problem, ." were two phrases she used all the time . I am surprised at how difficult it has been to emulate her technique. Feeling comfortable asking the obvious questions is one half of the battle, but the other, more difficult half, is knowing what obvious questions to ask. Mo…

For me, I think it's about your speed of thinking. If you ask a probing stupid question and get a "yes". If you are quick to reassemble your very low level of understanding into a (wrong) model, you can ask question about this model. "So that means that x goes into y to do z?" which makes you indeed look stupid but it also triggers the person explaining into "ok, this is a full out idiot, I need to go slow and explai…

My own issue with this method is trying to avoid sounding like I'm vying for brownie points by demonstrating knowledge after asking (what to them might be) a rudimentary question, especially so if my "update" is partially incorrect. It is to the point where I won't show someone I am aware of something simple they have just pointed out to me. Which either is something the author of the blog would condone or I have misconstrued in which instance it is useful to look like you have less understanding than you really do.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#748

Post by pksebben » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #612

serial_dev wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like to say "I'm going to ask a stupid question". First of all, it feels disingenuous to me, people who say that never actually think that their questions will be stupid. And the second reason is that I think I might even convince myself that my questions are stupid... I know it sounds silly to some but little things like how you talk about yourself (and your questions) is important. I often ask these "stupid…

> First of all, it feels disingenuous to me, people who say that never actually think that their questions will be stupid. No, I often legitimately think that my question might (!) be stupid, because I'm aware that I'm coming into the discussion with less domain knowledge and experience than the other people in the room. I still think it's good for everyone (ie, not just me) to explain. (Sometimes it's clear that eve…

It's this very awareness of one's own limitations that allows folks to overcome those limitations. If I might add my own (personal, biased, narrow) understanding; the whole concept of "stupid" is like a cognitive filtration mechanism. We filter ideas that others have by calling them "stupid" and then we attempt to avoid being filtered in that way, but that filter is kind of stupid. Unless you already know everything (protip: you don't) you run the risk of filtering based on an incorrect assumption.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#749

Post by dominotw » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

> I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out.

> I brace myself to be the idiot.

I don't think not knowing something makes one an idiot. Having hard time understanding something does. I don't think your example applies here.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#750

Post by pksebben » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

soneca wrote: post #184

alexandrerond wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. There's distance between: "people think I'm stupid because I'm not scared to show that I don't know about something" and some of the examples which are more along the lines of "people think I'm stupid because I act as a self-entitled genius who provides little context or reasoning behind choices and expect everyone to line up behind with no question" What is the Apple store employee supposed to do to not mak…

Yes, he clearly states he thought that the student group that thought he was stupid were stupid. And later that the only people that would think his test thing was stupid would be the incompetent ones. So his thesis is also that stupid people assume that intelligent people are stupid. He considers himself more intelligent than those people. I wonder if he would be as willing to look stupid in front of people that he…

I read this more as: "stupid is an important step in the process of fostering smart". It's someone's unwillingness to look dumb that stalls them at the gate.

I think this is the impetus behind the whole 'crawl, walk, run' thing. If you're always hot to trot and pushing an image of "I know everything already and I don't need to ask basic questions", you're never going to build the foundations of understanding necessary to construct more complex understandings.