Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash • Hacker News Board

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#221

Post by BitwiseFool » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #134

bserge wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's like saying "we let organized crime run rampant", implying there's a choice to stop it. Which I now realize might be true...

Outside hot-war which would result in massive casualties in SK, there is very little more that can be done to NK... So there being no choice is probably correct in this case. At least with other countries there is some ways pressure them, with NK not too much, and not for measly sums of money involved.

It's also ridiculously hard to get spies inside of North Korea. Covert action is incredibly difficult. Imagine trying to train a South Korean to blend in when they are a foot taller due to sufficient nutrition.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#222

Post by mywittyname » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #124

garmaine wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so if a cop pulls you over you can prove it is documented/part of a ‘legal’ source Which the cop will promptly ignore and take the money anyway.

Which if you have a dashcam, paperwork, and lawyers could put him in jail or get you shot. You do have enough lawyers right?

None of this matters. The police are definitely not going to be put in jail for doing their job. And seizing "large amounts" of cash falls squarely into their job description.

The department has an army of lawyers who deal with civil asset forfeiture all the time, and they can call in federal assistance if needed. There's a 95% chance the department will keep all of the cash, and in the other 5% they merely keep some of it.

Paperwork won't help because the prosecutors will successfully argue that it could be used for future crimes.

Civil asset forfeiture makes a mockery of the US legal system, but most people don't follow it enough to see just how bad it really is.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#223

Post by q1w2 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #78

I find it strange that people trust the banks with their money, given their history and their behavior.

I trust the bank more than I trust my mattress.

All risks are relative.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#224

Post by paulmd » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:38 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #81

vl wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was underreported shortage of cash since the start of pandemic. My branch for a while wouldn’t give out more than a $1000. Before the pandemic $10000 were fine.

There has also been a shortage of metal coins, because physical exchange isn't happening as much during covid. Although, I still personally believe that coins at least up to the US quarter should probably be abolished. Quarters are really the only thing semi useful as a medium of exchange, and even they are starting to lose their utility. Maybe dollar coins can still be useful.

the US killed the half-penny when it was worth what a dime was worth today - practically speaking, anything under a quarter is too little to be worth worrying about.

Yes, this likely means retailers will play games with change, but other times you will come out on top with the rounding. And think about it this way - yes, sometimes retailers played games with the half-penny too. A few decades on, once you've gotten out of the mindset that someone is "cheating you" out of maybe as much as a quarter-penny every transaction, nobody cares, it's not an actual significant amount of money.

there also are significant costs associated with maintaining currency units that small - it costs more than a penny to make a penny, and while sure, that penny gets used through multiple transactions, that also incurs additional costs on everybody who has to handle that penny in every single transaction. The amount of time and energy spent handling that penny probably winds up being dollars over the lifespan of the penny.

this also gives interesting context to the expression "a penny saved is a penny earned" - that expression today would be "a dollar saved is a dollar earned". A penny was actually a decently significant amount of money when that expression was coined, it wasn't literally "every single quarter-penny matters".

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#225

Post by tristor » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #135

tristor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's also benign but not mentioned by the grandparent is that any economy which has considerable foreign travelers passing through will likely end up losing some cash. I have two pint glasses sitting on my desk, one for coins, the other for bills, they are literally packed full of money from my various travels. Last time I checked, I had almost 300 euros in there and I haven't been in the Eurozone in quit…

€300 seems a lot to have in cash anyway , regardless of tourism. That is probably more than most people would want to risk on loss/theft. It's three times what I routinely carry, which is still above average: https://www.bloomberg.com/toaster/v2/charts/892967a8146e4cc8... or https://www.statista.com/statistics/787626/average-amount-of...

Generally speaking I get a pretty large sum of cash out at the beginning of a trip upon arrival and try to use cash for everything. It does depend on where I'm visiting, but the reality is that in a lot of the world there are places which only accept cash or where you can have a simpler transaction using cash. When I return, I just dump whatever remains in the jar. In theory I would take it with me if I visit a place that uses that currency again, but I usually forget and since I have to get more from the ATM anyway I don't really worry about it. It's not as if I brought back 300 euros from one trip. I have currency in there right now from about 28 different countries.

Regarding cash to carry, I basically am not concerned with pick pocket / theft, for a number of reasons, and am more concerned with a business being unable to take a card for some reason. For instance, my primary travel card is an American Express which is not accepted by small businesses in a lot of countries, such as restaurants and shops. In these cases I have a backup card, but I would prefer to use cash. I also ensure I have enough cash to always get me back home and in communication, so enough to replace my phone and get a return plane ticket.

I imagine locals don't need to carry as much cash as foreigners because they have a different set of concerns and easy / ready access to more cash without being charged exorbitant fees for access.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#226

Post by mdp2021 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #200

mdp2021 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is impossible to withdraw more than In some countries that's the law. > I wanted to buy a used car ... the easiest method seemed to be cash In some countries that became illegal over a certain threshold of expense the payment must be traceable). I was recently told (but did not verify) that car sellers, in some countries, out of some regulation, nowadays will even ask you how you "made" that money. (And I replie…

sounds like you live in a police state.

A place with a traditionally skewed (Pareto) distribution in all non-monetary contexts, in which it was decided that Median Jack should rule and anti-intellectualism ate society and state.

I am trying to flee - if you know a place in which values (such as aptitude and civilization) are still in place, drop a note.

Interestingly for the context, it was a crisis in banking that "made the first alarms ring", in my case, years ago.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#227

Post by Arrath » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #203

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s about what I withdraw at the airport. I don’t know the next time I’ll find an ATM that accepts my card. I only want to pay the fixed fee once. I estimate my risk of a mugging, while non-zero, to be very low.

At the airport is the start of the trip. Would you have €300 leftover in your cash jar?

I'm probably in a minority, but I keep an envelope of $1000 in my safe next to my passport at home. Not quite the petty cash jar, but I have it handy in case.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#228

Post by tobyjsullivan » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

r00f wrote: post #173

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudo-relevant anecdote: I wanted to buy a used car a few months ago off someone on Facebook. We were meeting up same day so the easiest method seemed to be cash. I went to the bank to withdraw $7000 and was informed, much to my surprise, that it is impossible to withdraw more than $3000 without 48 hours notice. Suffice it to say, I've been seriously considering the tradeoffs of hoarding cash under my mattress.

It can be just bank policy, not related to any shortage or whatever. My bank allowed me to withdraw $ 30k, and didn't even ask why, they just said "come tomorrow, we don't have that cash today".

Yeah, it's not a shortage. It's bank policy to mitigate the risk of bank runs. What bothered me was the 24hr (or 48 hr in my case) notice requirement. That day I learned that my money is only actually mine (in the sense that I can use it as I please) if the bank decides to allow me.

As time goes on, those dollar maximums and notice periods are malleable and completely outside my control.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#229

Post by ptero » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

ptero wrote: post #69

christophilus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you find spreads that low? They’re like 10-20% where I am.

Using reputable dealers that deliver orders placed online. Strange as it sounds, it is, IMO, one of the better and safer (definitely low commission) ways to get gold. BD Bullion, APMEX are good ones. I did not check very recently, but when I did the difference with spot price were under 1% (slightly higher for APMEX, slightly lower for BD). A friend in Australia mentioned the same ballpark, 1-1.5% spread (combined, n…

I stand corrected -- currently, the difference with spot price is about 2% each way. Lower than 10-20%, but much higher than ~0.5% I remember earlier. I suspect this is due to recent gold price volatility, but not sure.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#230

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #98

All noncash methods of payment have strings attached where consumers and merchants alike are subject to various controls and costs. Cash is simple, exchange something in your posession for goods and services. It cannot be used as a means of identity based regulation or to audit who is buying what from whom. I mean, bitcoin exists because of how unacceptable this is to everyone but the middlemen, bureaucrats and purse…

Cash is a transaction mechanism that no outside party can block. A power out can't; a failed computer or a network outage can't; even a government can't. That has a certain charm.