Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash • Hacker News Board

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#81

Post by anonporridge » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:33 AM UTC

vl wrote: post #55

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudo-relevant anecdote: I wanted to buy a used car a few months ago off someone on Facebook. We were meeting up same day so the easiest method seemed to be cash. I went to the bank to withdraw $7000 and was informed, much to my surprise, that it is impossible to withdraw more than $3000 without 48 hours notice. Suffice it to say, I've been seriously considering the tradeoffs of hoarding cash under my mattress.

There was underreported shortage of cash since the start of pandemic. My branch for a while wouldn’t give out more than a $1000. Before the pandemic $10000 were fine.

There has also been a shortage of metal coins, because physical exchange isn't happening as much during covid.

Although, I still personally believe that coins at least up to the US quarter should probably be abolished. Quarters are really the only thing semi useful as a medium of exchange, and even they are starting to lose their utility. Maybe dollar coins can still be useful.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#82

Post by tacLog » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

vl wrote: post #66

lazide wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s trivial to buy gold in the US without id, in cash. More than a million or two might require something, but less than that very doable.

How exactly would you go about that? And how are you going to make sure you are buying gold and not gold-plated lead?

I think he is talking about the reletively high number of people that buy and sell gold for cash as private parity sales. Generally, I have been gold authenticated by taking the density with a good scale and water displacement. Though that technically could be faked it would be very hard. If you wanted to do it quickly you could probably cut a corner off because the stuff in circulation is normally high enough grade that it's almost soft. Gold Plated lead would feel off to anyone that's handled gold before from density alone. Gold is nearly twice as dense. That's why it made a great coin in the past. It's far denser than anyother common materials.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#83

Post by anonporridge » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

adolph wrote: post #48

anonporridge wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fire/water proof safes aren't terribly expense. Also, safe deposit boxes are an option, which have different security tradeoffs from a safe in your home.

Previous commentary on Safe Deposit Boxes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27106695

Yeah. It's not an either/or situation. It's a both/and.

Tradeoffs generally require hedging your bets.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#84

Post by imroot » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #9

rsj_hn wrote: post #6

There is a lot of rumor and speculation about very benign things. 1. Precautionary savings. In a low interest rate environment, there is not the same penalty for holding cash as getting interest in a savings account. A lot of people find it prudent to have a buffer of cash, say enough to cover 1 month of expenses. So cash withdrawn from an ATM but put into a piggybank or under the mattress will appear here as "missin…

The precautionary savings of physical cash may even be on the rise as people realize how easily their economic lives could be switched off in an instant in the increasingly digital world, whether by being intentionally targeted or accidentally disabled with a lot of bureaucracy slowing down the correction. Having enough cash under your mattress that authority figures can't easily take from you is a psychological comf…

Slowing down the correction?

I had 40K taken by US Bank last year...365 days have passed and they're still coming up with excuses as to why they can't disburse that amount to me.

Thank god that I had the insight to start a savings account at a Credit Union about 10 years ago, and moved half of my paychecks there via direct deposit.

I now keep cash in a safe (what safety am I getting keeping that cash in a CD at .05%?) as my savings account.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#85

Post by lazide » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

vl wrote: post #66

lazide wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s trivial to buy gold in the US without id, in cash. More than a million or two might require something, but less than that very doable.

How exactly would you go about that? And how are you going to make sure you are buying gold and not gold-plated lead?

You go to a reputable dealer with cash, and buy what you want. If you’re clear you are doing a cash only deal no name, you’re good.

They’ll issue you an invoice made out to walk in or whatever, so you have documentation, and if you want, you can pay taxes on gains or whatever later.

It IS getting harder to get cash out of a bank without jumping through endless hoops, but most banks will still let you call in an order for $20k cash or whatever (more than $100k starts to become much more difficult) and after a few days will have it ready for you with documentation (so if a cop pulls you over you can prove it is documented/part of a ‘legal’ source).

Some will make you sign a waiver so if you get mugged outside the bank, you were warned and it’s not their fault, etc. at some point it’s probably worthwhile to get an armored truck or whatever.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#86

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:38 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #51

XorNot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern banking was also basically invented because of this very problem - gold was inconvenient so you had gold coins with insigna's which promised a standard weight of gold and could be reasonably trusted due to being hard to forge. Which gave way to IOUs from gold smiths, since carrying large amounts of coins was still hard. Which, well, everyone knows the rest.

Right, so again, what do these people think they are solving? There's plenty of logic flaws with the doomsday preppers, but returning to the gold economy is just where I draw the straw. Sure, store all the food, guns/ammo, fuel, water, etc you can, but if the world is that screwed up, we've all seen the movies on how well best laid plans workout.

[deleted]

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#87

Post by jiggunjer » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #28

nullc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Place in a fire/water resistant bag 90% cash, 10% Bitcoin. In the event of hyperinflation the Bitcoin will hopefully gain (or at least preserve value)-- and it can be transferred online, which the cash cannot. (And in the event of a total bitcoin collapse you still have 90%). Re-balance it once a year or so. It doesn't take much to make missing out on the 0.5% interest rate of a high rate savings account into not muc…

And bitcoin ATMs that spit out cash are becoming more common if you've been cut off from using traditional banking services and need physical cash, even if the spreads they offer are currently exorbitant.

5% on an ATM in Hong Kong. I'd say that's reasonable.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#88

Post by tacLog » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #36

petilon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We let North Korea print their own $100 bills for years as a form of off the books aid That's very hard to believe. Citation needed!

which part? The 'we let' them part? or the fact that NK is able to print?

I am having trouble finding the 'let them' part. I see plenty of allegations. I just wanted to find out when the US was 'off the books aiding' North Korea.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#89

Post by lazide » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:45 AM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #54

rsj_hn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that gold is a universally desired good that can be exchange for money or anything of value in any situation or place. So if you decide to flee the country, five pounds of gold is $150K and can easily be carried in a small backpack. Let's say you keep it in 1 troy oz pieces, so you have 80 of them worth about $1800 each. You can go to any nation on earth, and whatever currency they have, they will…

I understand the rational thinking of gold exchanges. You missed the detail about this being confusion on preppers. If the world has gone to shit (nuclear war, zombies, etc), then gold just isn't that useful. If it was silver, you could at least melt it down and kill the vampires with it. You're attempting to use logic in a place where there is none.

Zombies have always been a thinly veiled analogy for fear of the mindless hoard of ‘everyone else’ coming to get you. In my opinion anyway.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#90

Post by adfrhgeaq5hy » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:47 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #26

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudo-relevant anecdote: I wanted to buy a used car a few months ago off someone on Facebook. We were meeting up same day so the easiest method seemed to be cash. I went to the bank to withdraw $7000 and was informed, much to my surprise, that it is impossible to withdraw more than $3000 without 48 hours notice. Suffice it to say, I've been seriously considering the tradeoffs of hoarding cash under my mattress.

You're not that many steps away from being a gold bug or a bitcoin hodler.

The reason those people exist is that the US banking system is so bizarrely dysfunctional. The American system is corrupt and byzantine and antiquated and leaves tens of millions of people out in the cold. Those people are absolutely right to be furious. They're just wrong about the solution.