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Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

economist.com

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Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#201

Post by throwaway0a5e »

lazide wrote: post #196
refurb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source? How valuable is knowing the serial number of an ATM dispensed bill? Very little cash is deposited into an ATM. Any time I’ve deposited cash I’ve never seen it scanned (it goes into the drawer). And if it were scanned at multiple points think of the cash in a register at a store? How many transactions does it go through before getting scanned again? Especially smaller bills? Seeing that a bill wa…

[ https://www.hyundaimib.com/tech-guide/ocr/ ] Up to the bank as to what level of detail they record and where the data goes, but the sensors are usually there. If you know 100 people pulled cash out of various amounts over time, and 1 person deposited $100 from each of them - that tells you 100 people all made nearly the same purchase of something around $100 from that person correct? Even better if some portion of…

The great thing about cash is you can use it everywhere, not just for things you want to keep on the down low.

You take that fat stack of bills you made selling dime bags and you go to Walmart and you buy groceries with it or whatever. Only the things that require a non-cash method of payment need to involve the banking system. Even then you can buy prepaid visa gift cards to handle most of those case if you're ok with the inconvenience.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#202

Post by mdp2021 »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #100
chiph wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hurricane season started in the southeastern US on June 1st. It's not uncommon for folks to have a few hundred in cash for when the power goes out and the credit card terminals aren't working.

Sometimes the card systems don't work on a normal day. I was checking out food at a supermarket with debit when the card reader crashed. Cashier rebooted it but it complained that I didn't have enough money in the account, which I definitely did. I checked my banking app and it showed as if the transaction had succeeded, but the supermarket couldn't produce a receipt and refused to give me the groceries. When I calle…

Good!!!

Now also suppose a "clerical mistake" freezes access to your accounts.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#203

Post by Symbiote »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #151
Symbiote wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

€300 seems a lot to have in cash anyway , regardless of tourism. That is probably more than most people would want to risk on loss/theft. It's three times what I routinely carry, which is still above average: https://www.bloomberg.com/toaster/v2/charts/892967a8146e4cc8... or https://www.statista.com/statistics/787626/average-amount-of...

It’s about what I withdraw at the airport. I don’t know the next time I’ll find an ATM that accepts my card. I only want to pay the fixed fee once. I estimate my risk of a mugging, while non-zero, to be very low.

At the airport is the start of the trip. Would you have €300 leftover in your cash jar?

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#204

Post by Spooky23 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #67
Spooky23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the bank. Most branches are really sales offices. Usually there’s a few that actually stock cash.

That’s wild. When I was a teller (15 years ago maybe) we would routinely keep around 7-10k in our drawers, and another 40k as ready money in the day safe. Granted, we were a drive up branch that dealt with commercial/retail so a lot of customers would routinely be dealing with 5k worth of cash. Other branches had similar amounts of cash though. Strange world

Look at the security at most bank branches - it’s awful.

My wife used to work at a regional branch that did cash management for other banks. The place was like a fortress and had a lot of physical security measures to protect the people and dollars. That branch was nuts - they’d handle millions in currency and be able to handle six figure withdrawals. Midtown Manhattan banks can do that too.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#205

Post by ausername42027 »

rsj_hn wrote: post #6

There is a lot of rumor and speculation about very benign things. 1. Precautionary savings. In a low interest rate environment, there is not the same penalty for holding cash as getting interest in a savings account. A lot of people find it prudent to have a buffer of cash, say enough to cover 1 month of expenses. So cash withdrawn from an ATM but put into a piggybank or under the mattress will appear here as "missin…

Downplaying is being "only" 2% of currency in circulation is really strange. It is 2% of currency in circulation of the world's largest economy and the de facto international currency. The US accounts for almost 16% of the GLOBAL GDP when adjusted for PPP.

I guess people just love to be contrarians on HN.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#206

Post by nivenkos »

daot wrote: post #183
nivenkos wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But banning cash, stops all petty crime, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc. immediately. It's such a great solution and we're so close! No-one will rob you when you have no cash to take, and they can't sell your phone anywhere since it could be traced (and the phone is now locked out and banned via IMEI, etc.). Technology could make society so much safer, so easily. And cards can work offline in an emergency, like they…

> banning cash, stops all petty crime, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc. immediately. Is this sarcastic? You do realize the vast majority of tax evasion happens through banks right? Like African dictators stashing dirty money in European or Swiss Banks, or Mexican druglords using HSBC to launder money. Specifically in scandinavia: > the leaks with the detailed administrative records of wealth, income, and taxes paid th…

But the banks can be forced to open up their accounts and transaction details.

Cryptocurrency-Fiat exchanges should also be banned. You can't copy credit cards in Europe due to the chip on the card.

These problems have largely technical solutions, we just need to stop fearing technology.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#207

Post by EastOfTruth »

criddell wrote: post #191
EastOfTruth wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this whole article is complaining that 2% of currency is not circulating. And 40% of US dollars in existence were printed in the last 12 months: https://techstartups.com/2021/05/22/40-us-dollars-existence-...

> Instead of spending the money on food, savings, or paying off debts, some people invested their stimulus checks in stocks (GameStop, etc.), and cryptocurrencies like bitcoins further driving up their prices. I've never thought about rising stock prices as inflation before.

I think that we have some artificial inflation because of supply chain issues and all cargo ships sitting in the Pacific ocean waiting to be unloaded. But I don't see why stock prices should not raise with everything else.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#208

Post by sneak »

Symbiote wrote: post #135
tristor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that's also benign but not mentioned by the grandparent is that any economy which has considerable foreign travelers passing through will likely end up losing some cash. I have two pint glasses sitting on my desk, one for coins, the other for bills, they are literally packed full of money from my various travels. Last time I checked, I had almost 300 euros in there and I haven't been in the Eurozone in quit…

€300 seems a lot to have in cash anyway , regardless of tourism. That is probably more than most people would want to risk on loss/theft. It's three times what I routinely carry, which is still above average: https://www.bloomberg.com/toaster/v2/charts/892967a8146e4cc8... or https://www.statista.com/statistics/787626/average-amount-of...

You can't even replace your phone for that much.

I don't carry less than the cost of a new phone, new laptop, and at least a week in a hotel.

All sorts of systems can fail that make cards and ATMs stop working. Look at Puerto Rico after Maria.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#209

Post by dghlsakjg »

lazide wrote: post #120
anonporridge wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also been hit by not being able to withdraw more than about $5k cash as a retail customer without multi day notice. I do wonder if it's not all nefarious as cash has become drastically less common over the past couple decades. Still, it's especially interesting because the numbers even 15 years ago are much higher in real terms than today. This is another advantage of inflation. You can set rules like, you have…

Cash is a bit of a pain to deal with, and most branches all normal withdrawals are going to be via the ATM anyway. Cash is also a security risk and liability from a ‘getting robbed’ perspective. So it’s rare to really need more anymore, except for outlier situations like car sales, which they generally don’t handle well.

True, but so much of banking has been moved to online and mobile so visits to an actual branch are almost always outlier situations.

I shouldn’t have to schedule something ahead of time which is the equivalent of cashing the average American paycheck. Cash might be a bit of a pain, but there are still plenty of common and good reasons why I might want 5k of my money without having to wait a few days for it.

Re: Banks, gangsters and the strange resurgence of cash

#210

Post by rabuse »

nivenkos wrote: post #169
eitland wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next door, in Norway, the Norwegian bank is quite clear that accepting cash is required for every shop and failure to do so will be punished (unmanned kiosks and vending machines seems to be allowed though). I'm actually in favour of that, not because I fear my current government but because it - is convenient (much better than gift cards) - feels good to be able to buy stuff without telling my bank and Google and wh…

But banning cash, stops all petty crime, tax evasion, drug dealing, etc. immediately. It's such a great solution and we're so close! No-one will rob you when you have no cash to take, and they can't sell your phone anywhere since it could be traced (and the phone is now locked out and banned via IMEI, etc.). Technology could make society so much safer, so easily. And cards can work offline in an emergency, like they…

"No-one will rob you when you have no cash to take" Except... the bank and your government.
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