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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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151–160 of 282 posts

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#151
post #28

Of course I cannot access the full text article, but the claim that this HW can be sharpened and become "3 times sharper" than "most commercial table knives" sounds not very scientific.

Since "table knife" means the typical dull cutlery knives (as opposed to e.g. steak or kitchen knives), I have no doubt that wood (hardened or not) can be sharpened like that.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time is a critical factor (ie, the "yr" in your metric). Bamboo grows _incredibly_ fast.

Soft bamboo (which is useless for products like these) grows incredibly fast.

Why can they not be hardened? Or otherwise used?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#153
post #4

I'm sold. Where can I get some of this hardened wood? I would like to experiment with it and maybe incorporate it into products.

I have a tiny bit of advice I might be able to lend here, for experimentation purposes mainly. Regular hardwood can be heat-treated to increase its density and compression strength considerably, in the most basic form this can be done at home by heating it... slowly... up to ~400F (typically just holding it over a hot-plate until it's light-medium brown. You'll want a temperature-stable oven for wood more than a cm or so thick)

This won't provide the same density this study has achieved, but it'll give you a quick proof-of concept for next to no cost.

In the article I believe they also chemically alter the wood by removing lignin with a boiling sodium hydroxide solution. Basically dissolving out the 'dead weight' and leaving more cellulose, which is what's giving wood most of its strength.

They do also use physical compression under heat, which wouldn't be too hard to achieve with mere run to home-depot, but I'm not sure how much effort you want to put into this as of now.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#154

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Why are people not considering just growing large trees to capture carbon cut down those trees and just coat them in plastic and throw them at the bottom of ocean/desert or some kind of storage where this carbon can stay trapped for thousands of years ? What am I missing ? I think growing trees is better than just capturing CO2 directly as growing a large forest might have other advantages and a lot of wood can be us…

https://www.terraformation.com/blog/trees-are-a-faster-solut...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#155
post #109
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thinking is why cryptocurrency miners are setting up shop at substations. They get severely discounted electricity from the utilities, in exchange for ramping up and down their servers to keep the grid load balanced. Except, of course, cryptocurrency isn't nearly as useful as, say, desalinated water.

> Except, of course, cryptocurrency isn't nearly as useful as, say, desalinated water. I'd like to expand on this a bit. The major problem with cryptocurrency is that the value of a typical coin seems to be ~ the cost of electricity needed to mine one. This means that a crypto miner turns $1 of energy into ~$1 of wealth. As far as business plans go, this is an absolutely horrific use of energy. Nearly no other busine…

That's why they are pursuing deals with electric companies. In exchange for helping with loaf balancing, they get electricity well below market rates. They are making a killing.

Everyone who buys the coins are just helping to remove the pandemic stimulus from the economy, which I suppose is its own sort of good.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#156
post #71

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

Steel is amazing - and as a result we use it in all kinds of places where its properties aren't fully utilized. Aluminum has been growing into that role of "steel alternative", but there's still room for other alternatives.

Looking back at Aluminium, it was once very costly - there was no economical way to extract it from clay by traditional metallurgy. When the Hall process of electrolytic extraction from molten salts was invented = huge price decline, and useage. Titanium is in a similar position, fairly common, but hard to extract economically. I hope there is a low cost electrolytic to recover Titanium found some day, as it is a very good material for all manner of uses at a lower price. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall%E2%80%93H%C3%A9roult_proc...

There is a new Titanium process, not as cheap as I would like, but a lot better than we have now. https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-021-00166-8

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#157

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

A benefit of using wood is not composting it in the end. We want to pull carbon out of the air, which trees are good at, but we don't want to let it back into the air when it is done. Adding all the stuff to it increases the longevity, which is helpful.

Steel doesn't pull carbon out of the air, unfortunately.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition progress making steel with a lot less CO2, by using hydrogen (and other techniques) instead of coal has come a long way. This isn't just pie in the sky, the world's second largest steel maker plans to reduce CO2 by 30% before 2030. [1] And of course steel is eminently recyclable. I'm not against wood but steel has some good long term attributes as well. [1] https://corporate.arcelormittal.com/sustainabili…

You can also coke iron with carbon from plastic. It's still not super great. But it does reuse plastics which don't get recycled enough.

Reminds me of "Plasteel" from RimWorld.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#159
post #132
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Well, the glue is a renewable resource, old livestock and milk. That's why Borden used mascot Elsie's spouse Elmer as a glue mascot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue https://americacomesalive.com/elmers-glue-the-surprising-sto...

[deleted]

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#160

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

There’s something to be said for the fact that harvesting wood is much more environmentally friendly than petroleum. At the very least a “wood spill” doesn’t exist as far as I know.
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