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ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

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Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#41

Post by satvikpendem »

Cerium wrote: post #40
satvikpendem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've had high quality loose leaf tea, you'll know that that's not true. It's like saying you need to grind coffee very finely to extract all the flavor when in reality, different grind levels are for different types of procedures like espresso, filter, pour over etc. If you try to use super fine coffee grounds for a pour over, you're gonna have a bad time.

I don't know a whole lot about coffee, but I stand by that good tea can be brewed well using boiling hot water. I run a direct to consumer tea business and much of my family is involved in the farming and production of tea, specifically Wuyi oolongs. Very rarely do I intentionally reduce the temperature more than a few degrees - and that is usually by boiling the water and then waiting a minute before starting.

It's different for Wuyi oolongs, they're much closer to black tea so they can withstand boiling water. If I did the same for a green dragonwell or white silver needle, it tastes terrible. I also ran a direct to consumer tea business so I've also tasted quite a lot of teas as I'm sure you have as well.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#42

Post by michaelhoffman »

xcambar wrote: post #36
isk517 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The student came to the Zen master and ask 'Would you like your tea with or without milk?' to which the Zen master replied 'I will take my tea with milk, without milk, and both.'

I'll get it if that's a joke... but I have to ask: is it a joke or is it real? If real, expect me to expect source material:)

It's a joke, or it's real, or both.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#43

Post by neaden »

unwind wrote: post #25
OJFord wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All teas are herbal. I'm not (just) being facetious - I don't think it can be well answered, because you're obviously thinking of something specific, and someone's going to answer with their own probably different specific 'herbal' tea in mind.

Fun! Another hidden trap when English is not your native tongue, I guess. Today I learnt that "herbal" does NOT mean "with herbs", but instead means "with PLANTS". All of them! Thanks, English. In Swedish, the word for non-tea tea is "örtte", where "ört" means "herb". Very confusing.

It depends. In America at least people generally mean Herbal tea to mean any beverage steeped with plants that is not made with the actual tea plant. They also may or may not be including Yerba Mate in this, which is a South American beverage made with a different plant, but still caffeinated. In other cooking context Herbs pretty much mean fresh (not dried) plants that are used to add an aromatic flavor, such as Basil or Rosemary. A chef would not refer to a carrot as an herb.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#44

Post by timeon »

parhamn wrote: post #15
satvikpendem wrote: post #12

The tea temperatures are all wrong, they should be: Black tea - 95 C Oolong Tea - 80-90 C (depending on oxidation level, more = higher temperature) Green Tea - 75 C Yellow Tea - 70-75 C White Tea - 70 C Using boiling water will scald the leaves and leave a bitter taste.

> Using boiling water will scald the leaves and leave a bitter taste. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samovar

Is not that for black tea?

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#45

Post by beepbooptheory »

xcambar wrote: post #36
isk517 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The student came to the Zen master and ask 'Would you like your tea with or without milk?' to which the Zen master replied 'I will take my tea with milk, without milk, and both.'

I'll get it if that's a joke... but I have to ask: is it a joke or is it real? If real, expect me to expect source material:)

I can assure you, its real

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#46

Post by nwiswell »

JasonCEC wrote: post #37
stryan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water. The idea that green tea (or any other type of whole leaf tea) should be brewed with something under ~100C is a technique used by merchants to sell you bad tea. Is this "can be brewed" as in you will end up with a beverage that is drinkable, or that you think that in general green tea is fine to be brewed at 100C. The former I can understa…

Tl;dr: yes, use boiling water on very high end Chinese green tea for best results. Longer Explanation: In the Chinese tea tradition, water temperature is referred to by the size of bubbles during boiling (crab eyes = small bubbles (cooler) vs fish eyes = large bubbles (hotter)). In theory, all water at boil is 100°c, but in practice, there is often a temperature gradient within a kettle and only the gas (the bubbles)…

What about high end Japanese green tea? Are they the same?

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#47

Post by JasonCEC »

nwiswell wrote: post #46
JasonCEC wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tl;dr: yes, use boiling water on very high end Chinese green tea for best results. Longer Explanation: In the Chinese tea tradition, water temperature is referred to by the size of bubbles during boiling (crab eyes = small bubbles (cooler) vs fish eyes = large bubbles (hotter)). In theory, all water at boil is 100°c, but in practice, there is often a temperature gradient within a kettle and only the gas (the bubbles)…

What about high end Japanese green tea? Are they the same?

They are not! Sencha should be brewed with off-boiling water, anywhere from 85 - 95°c (which is still a higher temperature than low end sencha).

What accounts for this difference?

High-end sencha is steam processed at a lower temperature. Steam only gets to ~100°c depending on altitude and that is the highest temperature it is exposed to throughout its production.

High-end Chinese green tea is partially processed in a wok to denature the oxidizing enzymes. The saying for Chinese tea is that "tea remembers the heat of the wok", which is the pan frying process at upwards of ~200°c.

So all wok processed green tea can be brewed with hotter water than steam processed green tea.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#50

Post by mst »

JasonCEC wrote: post #22

I work with tea both professionally[0] and semi-professionally[1] and will clarify that: - this is for commercial tea, not specialty or "ceremony" grade tea - all of the big commodity houses, blending houses, brand buyers, etc have their own modifications on the standard, and this ISO tea prep standard is most definitely not the "standard" - From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water…

I was under the impression that this document exists to have -a- standard such that if followed before performing some sort of experiment whether directly tea related or not, you could more easily exclude preparation differences as a confounder when comparing results with people who'd also followed the document.

Certainly this is how the old coworker who had a paper copy pinned up behind their desk explained it to me, and that understanding was why they found its existence so amusing even if their preferred cuppa's preparation process was substantially different.

This could of course be entirely wrong but seeing the paper copy pinned to the wall always did make me smile.

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