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ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

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Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#31

Post by stryan »

JasonCEC wrote: post #22

I work with tea both professionally[0] and semi-professionally[1] and will clarify that: - this is for commercial tea, not specialty or "ceremony" grade tea - all of the big commodity houses, blending houses, brand buyers, etc have their own modifications on the standard, and this ISO tea prep standard is most definitely not the "standard" - From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water…

> From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water. The idea that green tea (or any other type of whole leaf tea) should be brewed with something under ~100C is a technique used by merchants to sell you bad tea.

Is this "can be brewed" as in you will end up with a beverage that is drinkable, or that you think that in general green tea is fine to be brewed at 100C. The former I can understand (especially with cheap bagged green tea) but I'd be very surprised at the later considering that goes against pretty all modern and traditional guidance I've heard or read.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#33

Post by jet_32951 »

lonjil wrote: post #29
jet_32951 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just odd that one would not make green tea at anywhere near the right temperature. Green tea is simply not comparable with black; they are fundamentally different. It is as if there were an ISO standard on the quality of fruits and they are "compared" by assessing color (deviation from yellow is a fault, increasing by reflected wavelength difference).

It's not about comparing quality, it's about comparing consistency. Brands want their blends to be consistent from year to year. So every year they might create hundreds or thousands of different combinations of the specific teas they've acquired, until they find one that tastes as similar as possible to the blend they had last year. Also, green tea is just fine at boiling, if it isn't of poor quality :)

De gustibus non disputandum.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#34

Post by xcambar »

jet_32951 wrote: post #33
lonjil wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about comparing quality, it's about comparing consistency. Brands want their blends to be consistent from year to year. So every year they might create hundreds or thousands of different combinations of the specific teas they've acquired, until they find one that tastes as similar as possible to the blend they had last year. Also, green tea is just fine at boiling, if it isn't of poor quality :)

De gustibus non disputandum.

Latin gets upvotes in HN, but that's pretty much it.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#35

Post by deeg »

OJFord wrote: post #14
bumby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the preferred temp for herbal teas?

All teas are herbal. I'm not (just) being facetious - I don't think it can be well answered, because you're obviously thinking of something specific, and someone's going to answer with their own probably different specific 'herbal' tea in mind.

I don't know about the biological definition of "herbal" but in practice herbal is used as a catch-all for tisanes, teas that are made without the Camellia sinensis (tea) plant. It's not a hard rule, e.g. rooibos teas are generally listed separately from herbals.

In any case, there are a lot of different herbals and the perfect water temperature might be different for all of them. When I drink herbals (rarely) I just use boiling water.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#36

Post by xcambar »

isk517 wrote: post #30
aloe_falsa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the liquor with or without milk or both Both with and without milk? Must be how Zen monks drink it.

The student came to the Zen master and ask 'Would you like your tea with or without milk?' to which the Zen master replied 'I will take my tea with milk, without milk, and both.'

I'll get it if that's a joke... but I have to ask: is it a joke or is it real? If real, expect me to expect source material:)

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#37

Post by JasonCEC »

stryan wrote: post #31
JasonCEC wrote: post #22

I work with tea both professionally[0] and semi-professionally[1] and will clarify that: - this is for commercial tea, not specialty or "ceremony" grade tea - all of the big commodity houses, blending houses, brand buyers, etc have their own modifications on the standard, and this ISO tea prep standard is most definitely not the "standard" - From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water…

> From elsewhere in the thread: all great tea can be brewed with boiling water. The idea that green tea (or any other type of whole leaf tea) should be brewed with something under ~100C is a technique used by merchants to sell you bad tea. Is this "can be brewed" as in you will end up with a beverage that is drinkable, or that you think that in general green tea is fine to be brewed at 100C. The former I can understa…

Tl;dr: yes, use boiling water on very high end Chinese green tea for best results.

Longer Explanation:

In the Chinese tea tradition, water temperature is referred to by the size of bubbles during boiling (crab eyes = small bubbles (cooler) vs fish eyes = large bubbles (hotter)).

In theory, all water at boil is 100°c, but in practice, there is often a temperature gradient within a kettle and only the gas (the bubbles) is at exactly 100°c (assuming you're at sea level), which is why even some culinary recipes will call for a "rolling boil".

In any case, the strength of the stream when pouring will have a greater effect on the resulting flavor profile of very good green tea than the variation in bubble size, as bubble size is a variance of ~2°c while water can lose up to 5°c in a high slow pour.

Thus, boiling water at crab eyes with a thin slow (but not high) pour is the method used for high end Chinese green tea amongst high level Chinese tea practitioners.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#38

Post by Cerium »

satvikpendem wrote: post #12

The tea temperatures are all wrong, they should be: Black tea - 95 C Oolong Tea - 80-90 C (depending on oxidation level, more = higher temperature) Green Tea - 75 C Yellow Tea - 70-75 C White Tea - 70 C Using boiling water will scald the leaves and leave a bitter taste.

Brewing at less than boiling leaves a lot behind in the tea. If the tea is good, it should be able to be brewed well at boiling.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#39

Post by satvikpendem »

Cerium wrote: post #38
satvikpendem wrote: post #12

The tea temperatures are all wrong, they should be: Black tea - 95 C Oolong Tea - 80-90 C (depending on oxidation level, more = higher temperature) Green Tea - 75 C Yellow Tea - 70-75 C White Tea - 70 C Using boiling water will scald the leaves and leave a bitter taste.

Brewing at less than boiling leaves a lot behind in the tea. If the tea is good, it should be able to be brewed well at boiling.

If you've had high quality loose leaf tea, you'll know that that's not true. It's like saying you need to grind coffee very finely to extract all the flavor when in reality, different grind levels are for different types of procedures like espresso, filter, pour over etc. If you try to use super fine coffee grounds for a pour over, you're gonna have a bad time.

Re: ISO3103 Tea Preparation [pdf]

#40

Post by Cerium »

satvikpendem wrote: post #39
Cerium wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brewing at less than boiling leaves a lot behind in the tea. If the tea is good, it should be able to be brewed well at boiling.

If you've had high quality loose leaf tea, you'll know that that's not true. It's like saying you need to grind coffee very finely to extract all the flavor when in reality, different grind levels are for different types of procedures like espresso, filter, pour over etc. If you try to use super fine coffee grounds for a pour over, you're gonna have a bad time.

I don't know a whole lot about coffee, but I stand by that good tea can be brewed well using boiling hot water. I run a direct to consumer tea business and much of my family is involved in the farming and production of tea, specifically Wuyi oolongs. Very rarely do I intentionally reduce the temperature more than a few degrees - and that is usually by boiling the water and then waiting a minute before starting.
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