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I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

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Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#81
Disconnection from the end product, specialization, bureaucracy... it sounds like this guy really just needs to work at a startup.

I mean, there are a ton of good reasons not to work at an early-stage company (not the least of which is pay), but:

- You want to be connected to the end product? At a 5-10 person company, you'll be seeing customers (and customer complains) pretty frequently.

- You want to own more of the stack? The "ops team" will be your left arm. Everyone will wear a ton of hats and you can be as full-stack as you want, up to and including non-coding roles like Product or Project Manager if you want to.

- You want to avoid bureaucracy? Hard to have much of that when there's only 1 or 2 other engineers.

I agree with other commenters here - it sounds like the real fix is to just work for a company that fits his preferences better. And given the recent surge in remote work, that's never been easier.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#82

I really think people who leave software engineering altogether mostly failed to find a company that respects engineers/pays well. If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k with 5 to 8 years of experience. Do that for a decade, and with some saving and basic investing, you are basically done working. On the other hand, fail to pass the algorithms interview, you are essentially stuck at 140-170k…

I think you have it backwards. If you can nail the CS interview, you can be one of Google's 80,000 cogs making 400K/year. Or if you can settle for 150K, you can work for a 20 person startup where you actually have input and are valued as more than just another ad enabler.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#83
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country/city? In Montreal I would say expectation got way higher. Positions with 85K CAD ask for 4 coding rounds and then just ghost you. On other hand one can land a 'municipal park manager' job with 125K CAD pay (of course if have access to such jobs). Also now it seems never ending scrums/ micromanagement are everywhere, exacerbated by covid-19 work from home.

I live over on the West Coast, and I truly don't understand how Canada's tech ecosystem works. I just started with a US company at $130k CAD + stock (they are saving a bundle vs if I was in the states, and I'm making $10k cad more than any Canadian company was offering, plus stock), two rounds of easy interviews, etc. People that want to make a ton of money get poached into the states all the time, because Canadian c…

I found this blog post from January pretty enlightening:

https://alexdanco.com/2021/01/11/why-the-canadian-tech-scene...

Discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25742623

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#84

Disconnection from the end product, specialization, bureaucracy... it sounds like this guy really just needs to work at a startup. I mean, there are a ton of good reasons not to work at an early-stage company (not the least of which is pay), but: - You want to be connected to the end product? At a 5-10 person company, you'll be seeing customers (and customer complains) pretty frequently. - You want to own more of the…

Or any small company. Most of what he's describing happens at large companies.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?

It's not just cultural, it's personal too. I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea. I get paid 174,000 USD per year I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off. My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The govern…

Most of my comments stem from personal experience; the assumption is that you are comparing someone who makes a similar amount of money here.

> I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off.

Americans differ from you in this aspect, but it's a cultural difference. It is very common for people to take 2-week vacations, and somewhat common for people to take two such vacations per year.

> My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The government would have mandated a minimum payment term if that did not happen.

Again, America has a cultural aversion to paying such generous benefits. I've seen people take 3 months off after having children. I have also seen new mothers come back to work part-time while transitioning to working full-time over the course of an additional couple months. Overall, it's comparable.

> I never have to worry about healthcare, it's just there and it's available all the time regardless of employment

If you are employed and making 174k in the USA, you are in the same boat: you do not have to worry about healthcare costs as you are covered.

> None of my children have ever participated in an 'active shooter drill'

Elected representatives who are meeting constituents do not get stabbed to death here. Stabbings in general are somewhat uncommon compared to shootings. America is more violent, but it doesn't generally affect people in the wage bracket that we're talking about here. A lot of violence is perpetrated by poor people on other poor people, usually in connection with narcotics.

> I went to a top tier University and only paid 3000 GBP per year. The government gave me thousands of pounds without expecting repayment. The government gave me thousands of pounds and said they will write it off if I can't pay it back before 25 years and they won't ask for a single penny if I earn below a certain amount. When they did start taking repayments, it was a small amount extra on top of my income tax. The interest rate is also very low to the point of it not really mattering.

America has fallen behind the other rich countries in this regard. But America also offers a much larger menu of choices in what kind of school you attend, and what type of experience you have. All that choice comes at a cost, and the high wages for computer science grads makes the increased college costs moot: you can earn it all back without superhuman effort, and student loan burdens rarely cripple the lives of people who get lucrative employment.

The amount of choice available to the American consumer beats anything the UK can offer, hands-down. This is true irrespective of how much you make: this type of variety and plentifulness for everyone is unprecedented outside of the US.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#86

I really think people who leave software engineering altogether mostly failed to find a company that respects engineers/pays well. If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k with 5 to 8 years of experience. Do that for a decade, and with some saving and basic investing, you are basically done working. On the other hand, fail to pass the algorithms interview, you are essentially stuck at 140-170k…

There are a lot of ways that this comes off sounding like bullshit advice a la "make $300k a week with this one simple trick after taking my course" style advertisements. There are a million things that could go wrong over a ten year period with your perfect plan. I think there's a heavy survivorship bias among those who've managed to execute this kind of exit from work life.

[deleted]

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Methinks you watch too much news about the US. Those problems you're alluding to don't affect the vast majority of Americans making $174k+/year, and that's kind of one of the problems we're having right now.

Take my salary down to 50k and everything remains true on that list except my holidays will be at cheap family resorts on the Mediterranean rather than in 5* hotels. That cannot be said for the average American: that may struggle with massive medical bills, lack of strong worker protection, kids doing active shooter drills, (three people from my clients have had their kids do this in the past few weeks) maybe 1 week…

The average American in the midwest can still live a pretty decent life on the 50k. An American making 50k in a major city such as San Francisco or New York City is forced to endure long commutes, but can still make it work, somewhat similar to people who commute to London.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#88
The alienation aspect of work in software is quite real, especially in companies that put many layers between developers and the end-users. Although Marx was prescient in this regard, the remedies he proposed are far from ideal...

The author's idea of completely abandoning software development seems a bit extreme. Software Development encompasses a huge variety of niches and disciplines, and ten years doing the same kind of work can get wearying. The remedy is to change it up and experience different paradigms. This of course will threaten the upward slope of compensation that one begins to expect (and frankly, needs, because of rising costs of one's commitments, such as raising children). The challenge is to make one's peace with the prospect of staying flat or going down in wages, really.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#89
post #79
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss total compensation at companies which pay 400-500k in the US is much lower than that. Unless you are super fortunate to join at the start of a boom cycle when shares are about to double in value or something. You basically need to be in the US, and in the US in the Silicon Valley, Seattle or NYC, I think, to somewhat reasonably hit 400-500k with just an algorithms interview :-)

Google Switzerland pays the same as the main campus in California.

Oh, interesting. That's news to me, but then again, my source is quite old.

Target total compensation? Not total compensation after stocks went up a ton?

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#90
post #78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the scale though right? Plumbing a city has different problems than plumbing a bathroom.

Plumbing isn’t meant to be a reduction. You’re still solving problems. But at the end of the day the data must flow.

But the complexity of the network can result in emergent properties that are at a different layer of abstraction than fitting pipes together.
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