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I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

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Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#61

Post by icedchai »

hellisothers wrote: post #17

“ For instance, I could be fulfilling any of these roles: …kitchen helper…” Has developing software really gotten worse in the last 10 years, have expectations gotten higher, or what? I’ve been around 20 years and (anecdotally) for me it’s better than it ever has been. I’m a mobile developer and not a web dev though, how much does language matter in job satisfaction?

It really depends on the organization. If you're in a micro-managed, ticket-driven, agile/scrum feature factory, it can be pure hell.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#62

Post by eatYourFood »

TameAntelope wrote: post #45
eatYourFood wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me 7 years to get to 101,000 GBP (140,000 USD) in London. After 10 years I am now on 125,000 GBP + bonuses (172,000 USD). Wages in the US are higher but for some reason I don't see a higher standard of living; there must be other factors at play. History: Java dev - large consultancy Java dev - small consultancy Tech lead - contractor Senior Architect - Massive software vendor (not FAANG) Principal Architect…

What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?

It's not just cultural, it's personal too.

I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea.

I get paid 174,000 USD per year

I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off.

My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The government would have mandated a minimum payment term if that did not happen.

I never have to worry about healthcare, it's just there and it's available all the time regardless of employment

I never worry about being fired without strong cause, I am protected by strong laws

None of my children have ever participated in an 'active shooter drill'

I went to a top tier University and only paid 3000 GBP per year. The government gave me thousands of pounds without expecting repayment. The government gave me thousands of pounds and said they will write it off if I can't pay it back before 25 years and they won't ask for a single penny if I earn below a certain amount. When they did start taking repayments, it was a small amount extra on top of my income tax. The interest rate is also very low to the point of it not really mattering.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#63

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

Xophmeister wrote: post #23
savant_penguin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I was stuck programming for 140k

Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.

Don't feel bad. In the alternate, alternate universe (colloquially known as "the USA outside of Silicon Valley, Seattle & NYC") they aren't normalized either.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#64

Post by MrDresden »

Xophmeister wrote: post #23
savant_penguin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I was stuck programming for 140k

Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.

They exist, but only at the players who compete in the global hiring pool (Google, Fb, Amazon, Spotify etc).

A local company which predominantly only competes in the European hiring pool will never give a wage higher than locally required.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#65

Post by MattGaiser »

pixelgeek wrote: post #42
mg wrote: post #21

The headline caught my eye because I love software development. And I thought "Yay, let's see what better thing they found". Then I stumbled at the given reasons: splitting up frontend and backend development, loading a dependency for every problem at hand, microservices and the explosion of frontend frameworks It is not as if you have to do that. I write a lot of software and I do the full stack, have zero dependenc…

> My suggestion if you love coding: Create your own world which is exactly as you like it. I love this concept but I think we all need to keep in mind that not everyone has the same options. I have been quite lucky in my life that I have had the option to do things my own way but I know a lot of people that don't

If you can consider quitting dev to be a kitchen helper, economics are clearly not a barrier.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#66

Post by dghlsakjg »

betaby wrote: post #33
hellisothers wrote: post #17

“ For instance, I could be fulfilling any of these roles: …kitchen helper…” Has developing software really gotten worse in the last 10 years, have expectations gotten higher, or what? I’ve been around 20 years and (anecdotally) for me it’s better than it ever has been. I’m a mobile developer and not a web dev though, how much does language matter in job satisfaction?

What country/city? In Montreal I would say expectation got way higher. Positions with 85K CAD ask for 4 coding rounds and then just ghost you. On other hand one can land a 'municipal park manager' job with 125K CAD pay (of course if have access to such jobs). Also now it seems never ending scrums/ micromanagement are everywhere, exacerbated by covid-19 work from home.

I live over on the West Coast, and I truly don't understand how Canada's tech ecosystem works.

I just started with a US company at $130k CAD + stock (they are saving a bundle vs if I was in the states, and I'm making $10k cad more than any Canadian company was offering, plus stock), two rounds of easy interviews, etc. People that want to make a ton of money get poached into the states all the time, because Canadian companies just aren't willing to play the game...

My last Vancouver position was $80k cad for mid level dev, no raise after 18 months, shitty equipment, etc... My first junior dev job ever was $75k USD in a low COL city in the states plus stock, bonuses, etc.

Being an American that has worked in tech on both sides of the border, there is definitely a culture difference. I haven't figured out exactly what it is, but it feels like Canadian tech culture is a little too conservative, cautious. I can't quite figure it out, there is capital, talent, access to markets

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#67

Post by MrDresden »

eatYourFood wrote: post #62
TameAntelope wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?

It's not just cultural, it's personal too. I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea. I get paid 174,000 USD per year I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off. My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The govern…

Also European (IS), and all of those points (though on 90k US) apply on this end as well.

Quality of life is good and the wages as well.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#68

Post by TameAntelope »

eatYourFood wrote: post #62
TameAntelope wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?

It's not just cultural, it's personal too. I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea. I get paid 174,000 USD per year I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off. My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The govern…

Methinks you watch too much news about the US. Those problems you're alluding to don't affect the vast majority of Americans making $174k+/year, and that's kind of one of the problems we're having right now.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#69

Post by dcow »

acwan93 wrote: post #56
wly_cdgr wrote: post #51

I don't blame the guy, most software dev (most web dev, anyway) is just white collar plumbing. Fixing broken shit pipes gets old

Much like plumbers where clients don't understand the issue and yell at you for "excessive billing" or asking for discounts.

People always look at me weird when I call software dev digital plumbing. Then they come back the next day and say, “actually I was thinking about it and you’re totally right!…”.

Re: I am getting out of software development after 10 years of coding

#70

Post by commandlinefan »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #4

I really think people who leave software engineering altogether mostly failed to find a company that respects engineers/pays well. If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k with 5 to 8 years of experience. Do that for a decade, and with some saving and basic investing, you are basically done working. On the other hand, fail to pass the algorithms interview, you are essentially stuck at 140-170k…

> If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k

And are willing/able to move anywhere in the country.

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