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Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

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91–100 of 282 posts

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#91
post #2

Can't read the article. How energy efficient and environmentally friendly is the hardening process compared to making steel? And is it a "in 20 years" thing again, like all new battery tech?

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

> - You can do a lot of this offsite as well and ship prefab components to the construction site. So, there is less waste on site of material that needs to be removed after. Existing construction work involves extensive use of power tools and produces enormous amounts of waste.

Prefab/offsite fabrication can be done with most building types, it's always a tradeoff of many factors: transportation costs generally go up, onsite labor and onsite construction time goes down, offsite labor and construction time becomes a thing, precision usually goes up since the offsite construction is often in a more controlled environment, site specific adjustments can be more difficult depending on the specific methods. If there are standardized pieces, that can reduce overall time to complete a project if there's some amount of warehousing rather than building just in time; offsite construction may also speed up projects when there's more capacity to build components in a factory setting(s) than with onsite labor.

For concrete offsite fabrication, you're looking for words like 'precast' and 'tilt-up'.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#92
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

Steel can be recycled/reused pretty easily. Just melt it down on an arc furnace and recast it. Can the same be said for hardened wood?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#93

The graph in that composite diagram is really bothering me. Their "hardened wood" product is 23 times harder than "natural" basswood. When dried, basswood (aka lime) is an extremely soft hardwood. It's very popular with novice turners and hand carvers. When green (natural?) you can carve it with a stone. Species matters. Lignum vitae is 20 times harder than basswood.

I think the point of using basswood as a reference is to demonstrate the effectiveness of the hardening process by using a very soft wood. Separately, basswood is fairly quick growing, making it a decent candidate for commercialization of the whole technology.

Not really "separately", pretty much as a rule hardwoods grow very slowly. Pretty much any fast growing wood is going to be soft.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#94

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

It doesn't last so long in construction, rebar in concrete has like a 75 year lifespan no?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Greta talks to the public sphere about government failing its climate responsibility, this is the kind of stuff she’s talking about. It’s easy to assume we “just” need subsidies and incentives (or the ending of same) for “green” solutions, but the problem is much larger than that. We need to be operating “sustainably” at every level, in between departments, across legislation. If regulation is blocking us, get i…

Shouldn't we make sure it's a good idea first?

It's easy to be gung ho about having other people use inspiring, untested technology. But it's not so fun when you're the teaching example for why regulations are slow moving.

"Sorry your house fell down, but we never thought to test this stuff at temperatures that low. I mean, we thought Texas was a hot place!"

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#96
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

Steel can be recycled/reused pretty easily. Just melt it down on an arc furnace and recast it. Can the same be said for hardened wood?

Indeed, steel is so recyclable that people will pay you for it regardless of condition. Contrast that to any kind of wood/pulp product.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#98

The most interesting thing is the Force/Displacement curve. It shows some plastic deformation even after the breaking point, which is unusual for „hard“ Materials. May this just be some gloryfied Epoxy with wood as filler?

It appears they are relying on the hydrogen bonding in the cellulose after lignin removal, so it should be >50% wood, i.e. not an epoxy with wood filler.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#99
post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

What % of engineered bamboo flooring is stuff other than bamboo (like glue)? From looking at the side when installing it, it seemed like very little.

Quite a bit actually. Bamboo cant be cut into planks, so it's typically ripped into really thin strips and then laminated.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#100
post #70

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

At least this material has a main ingredient that is renewable. No part of steel is renewable right? You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around). Also I'm doubting "minimal processing" for steel. You have to dig up the ore with giant machines, transport huge amounts of it by train, smash it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, melt it with a lot of energy and heavy equipment, etc., et…

> You can't grow more iron ore (though there is a lot of it lying around).

We live on a thin crusty shell around a ball of iron.

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