Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic • Hacker News Board

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#31

Post by the_other » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #23

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

A blocker to deployment would be getting building codes updated to permit use. From memory, wood was only approved for 3 story or less structures in most of the US. And building codes tend to be updated extremely slowly and conservatively.

When Greta talks to the public sphere about government failing its climate responsibility, this is the kind of stuff she’s talking about.

It’s easy to assume we “just” need subsidies and incentives (or the ending of same) for “green” solutions, but the problem is much larger than that. We need to be operating “sustainably” at every level, in between departments, across legislation.

If regulation is blocking us, get it changed. If changing legislation is too slow, refactor. We must go faster.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#32

Post by bhhaskin » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #30

account_b wrote: post #29

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

We need to mine in space.

This. If we want to continue human progress then space is really the only option.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#33

Post by fluxflexer » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

The most interesting thing is the Force/Displacement curve. It shows some plastic deformation even after the breaking point, which is unusual for „hard“ Materials. May this just be some gloryfied Epoxy with wood as filler?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#34

Post by clairity » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #23

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

A blocker to deployment would be getting building codes updated to permit use. From memory, wood was only approved for 3 story or less structures in most of the US. And building codes tend to be updated extremely slowly and conservatively.

from what i remember, it’s up to 6 stories in some parts of the country. i think it’s other aspects of the zoning and/or building code that tends to limit it to 3 stories—often podium style, with a concrete bunker foundation for cars with 3 stick-built stories on top.

for the record, i dislike this style because it reserves the most valuable square footage—the ground floor—to cars. the cars should go underground, allowing the ground floor to be used for human purposes—ideally mixed use, even just publicly accessible studio space for creatives.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#35

Post by pwr-electronics » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

nico_h wrote: post #2

Can't read the article. How energy efficient and environmentally friendly is the hardening process compared to making steel? And is it a "in 20 years" thing again, like all new battery tech?

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

HW is something you can do to one piece of wood, while CLT is something you can do to combine multiple pieces of wood. So you could have a HW CLT, for example.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#36

Post by jnmandal » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

account_b wrote: post #29

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

This is pretty clear to me too. We survive on stored energy borrowed from the past. Energy and growth are basically finite. We do need to cut down.

We also need to develop tech (weather technique or technology) to reconstitute waste and refuse into the inputs for our food, buildings, transportation, etc.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#37

Post by dymk » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

kfprt wrote: post #9

Usually 'hardened wood' is just wood where the air has been replaced with epoxy. The problem is epoxy is expensive and not different enough from a pure plastic.

I think what you're describing is more often referred to as "stabilized wood", and doesn't involve the "densification" process as described by the infographic.

I'm not willing to pay for the article to read it, but it seems like this is pretty different from epoxy stabilized wood (which isn't particularly hard).

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#38

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

account_b wrote: post #29

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

[deleted]

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#39

Post by jillesvangurp » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

finder83 wrote: post #27

jillesvangurp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is exactly the same but cross laminated timber (CLT) is already being used for constructing all kinds of buildings. Executive summary of its qualities: - Stronger and lighter than concrete. Think thinner floors and walls but with similar strength and load-bearing capability; less tonnes of material to move around. That alone is a big advantage. - Several buildings across the world already exist; more…

Looks like giant plywood. I'm actually really curious how it handles moisture content changes. Does it crack and is it dimensionally as stable as plywood?

Well, the short answer is that it is being used in Tokyo to build a sky scraper that is 350m high. You would not do that with plywood. Also, Tokyo has earth quakes, high humidity and typhoons. So, apparently it's up to that job and if it can work there, it can work pretty much anywhere.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#40

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #30

account_b wrote: post #29

As far as I know, the Earth's surface cannot meet humanity's current need for hydrocarbons, polymers or building materials. Biomass production is limited by sun energy and most importantly phosphorus and nitrogen cycles. Even hundred of years ago, people were already exhausting regenerative capacities and back then there were only around half a billion humans living on all this planet. Petrol chemistry and mineral ex…

We need to mine in space.

Good luck finding an oil rich asteroid. Or an asteroid with lush virgin hardwood forests.

As far as I know there isn't a shortage of iron ore. This hardened wood is solving a problem that we don't have yet.