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Willingness to look stupid

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Re: Willingness to look stupid

#381

Post by skybrian »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

> Going into an Apple store and asking for (and buying) the computer that comes in the smallest box, which I had a good reason to want at the time > The person who helped me, despite being very polite, also clearly thought I was a bozo and kept explaining things like "the size of the box and the size of the computer aren't the same". Of course I knew that, but I didn't want to say something like "I design CPUs. I und…

Or at least, if you don’t want to say why, it could be smoothed over with “I know this is going to sound like a bizarre request, but I want the one that comes in the smallest box. I have my reasons.”

Acknowledging that you know your request is unusual makes it sound a lot less stupid.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#382

Post by fatnoah »

mywittyname wrote: post #360
andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

One of the best people I've ever worked with used this approach. "I'm going to ask stupid questions now." and "Just so I'm understanding the problem, ." were two phrases she used all the time . I am surprised at how difficult it has been to emulate her technique. Feeling comfortable asking the obvious questions is one half of the battle, but the other, more difficult half, is knowing what obvious questions to ask. Mo…

> "I'm going to ask stupid questions now." and "Just so I'm understanding the problem, ." were two phrases she used all the time.

This is my approach when getting pulled into something. If I have no idea, I want to get that idea. I'll also use "this may sound stupid, but..."

One of the smartest people I've ever met in business was also this way. He also never nodded his head in agreement unless he actually understood and agreed. If he wasn't sure, he'd pause for a minute and work it out, even if it meant pausing the flow of the meetings. Some people interpreted it has him being "slow" but it really meant he actually understand all of the things he was nodding to.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#383

Post by shellfishgene »

lolc wrote: post #29
sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

> Going into an Apple store and asking for (and buying) the computer that comes in the smallest box, which I had a good reason to want at the time > The person who helped me, despite being very polite, also clearly thought I was a bozo and kept explaining things like "the size of the box and the size of the computer aren't the same". Of course I knew that, but I didn't want to say something like "I design CPUs. I und…

I wondered about that story and concluded that the author knew which computer they wanted. They also knew that this computer came in the smallest box. So they only had to give that second bit of information to get what they wanted. It is a bit condescending in my view to withhold that information from the clerk. But then again, I'm only making assumptions. Also, I've done similar things where I refused to let on my i…

I agree it's condescending, especially as the clerk obviously wanted to find out why he wants the smallest box to better help him. If your experience from working at a computer store is that 50% of the customers ask for thing A but really want thing B because they have little knowledge about computers, it's correct to assume that the customer that wants the machine in the smallest box also has a weird idea of what that means, and probably really needs a different selection criterion.

Saying "It's a gift so I don't care about the model but it needs to fit in my carry-on bag" (or whatever the reason) would have explained it, and nobody would have thought the other was stupid. So in this case he's actively inviting that judgement.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#384

Post by wokwokwok »

btrask wrote: post #212
pydry wrote: post #55

One way to prove that he truly doesn't mind looking stupid would be to list times when he risked looking stupid... and it turns out he actually was. It's happened to all of us though we dont like to admit it. I'm sure it's happened to him too and I looked but I didn't see any of those examples listed. Giving only examples of when people thought he was dumb and it turned out he wasn't... that's kind of just a roundabo…

This article does not undermine its own point. In fact, very, very few articles ever undermine their own point. In order to undermine your own point it means you've failed to construct a logical chain of thought. But that is what people do all the time in their daily lives. Maybe children would undermine their own points, or someone posting their first ill-thought comment on Facebook. But I think most people will lea…

You can construct an argument that we never landed on the moon if you cherry pick your data carefully.

That’s the point being made here: not that his examples are wrong, that they are cherry picked to support his views.

It may be superficially thought provoking, but it is not compelling as a logical argument.

There are tangible downsides to ignoring expert advice; you are not a god. You cannot be an expert at everything.

It is not possible to be an expert at everything.

Therefore, yes, asking questions to understand a topic is good, but no, ignoring the advice of an expert is not good.

The examples given only show examples where the result of ignoring the expert, or third party advice was positive; it can’t possibly be true that this can be the case in all circumstances, except by sheer good luck.

I whole heartedly agree that asking questions is more important than looking smart… but:

> Overall, I view the upsides of being willing to look stupid as much larger than the downsides. When it comes to things that aren't socially judged, like winning a game, understanding something, or being able to build things due to having a good understanding, it's all upside.

You don’t have to look stupid to be able to do all those things, you just have to be humble and work hard.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#385

Post by SamPatt »

At my company I'd say "ignorance is my superpower." It would usually get a laugh but people seemed to appreciate the mindset of intellectual humility.

Asking childish "why?" questions is often very illuminating, although if it causes you to stumble into some aspect of incompetent leadership then be warned.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#386

Post by Narann »

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

Such behavior can be a good thing, but you could fall in your own bias thinking you know the problem better than them, to finally realize the problem outpace your scope and you are just impacted as anyone in the room.

It happen for me once, and this was an humility lesson.

Now I keep in mind I can feel I understand the problem then realize later I was all wrong too.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#387

Post by legohead »

This resonates pretty well with me, re: asking questions

I noticed in classes that people were afraid to ask questions, and when they did, everyone else was happy they did so since we all had the same question in mind, usually. So at some point I decided I'm just going to ask any question that pops into my head and stop caring what others think.

It worked out great, but now that I'm married, it annoys my wife to no end, especially with an engineer mindset. Like the old joke "go to the store and get milk, if there are eggs, get a dozen", and the husband brings home a dozen milks. I ask these seemingly subtle, stupid, clarifying questions all the time (ie: "a dozen eggs, right?"), and it makes my wife angry -- still after 10 years of marriage.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#388

Post by mywittyname »

Ensorceled wrote: post #274
dade_ wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the Apple store employee ask why he wanted a computer that comes in the smallest box, or did he just assume the customer is stupid or ignorant? He doesn’t say either way, but most people will make an assumption instead of asking. The downside to this approach in retail is that it invites a long story…

I expect Apple store employees to deal with both "I want the 15 inch MacBook Pro in Gun Metal Gray with 16GB ram and 1TB drive" and "I'm looking for a good laptop for my daughter for university but I don't know anything about computers" Making any kind of judgments about their reaction to "I want the one that comes in the smallest box" is ludicrous; the behaviour itself is mildly sociopathic.

When you work with the general public long enough, you kind of learn to spot when people are fucking with you and to just leave them be. This is especially true when working with technical stuff like computers.

Good customer service is all about figuring out what people mean when they say ask for things. Sometimes they need genuine assistance, sometimes they just want to prove they are smart than you.

If one was truly not afraid to ask stupid questions, they would have humored the sales person. Just recently I got a discount on some laptop parts, entirely because I asked the sales guy questions about upgrading ram in a laptop I was buying, even though I already knew the answers, I just wanted someone to double check my assumption. So I asked if he could help me pick it out.

Turns out, he remembered that someone ordered, then cancelled the exact ram I was looking for, so he went to the upgrade center and got me a brand new stick of memory for the price of an "open box return."

Be nice to sales people, even if you build the things they are selling.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#389

Post by tk75x »

bambax wrote: post #306
dotancohen wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended. Socrates was sentenced to death not for exposing how little everyone else knew. The esteemed philosopher was sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people - like a fly - with badgering questions that would force the questionee into a corner. Today we call this method of exposing c…

> The esteemed philosopher was sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people No. Socrates was executed because he was associated with the worst rulers that the city of Athens had ever known, all former students of his, who notably went on to kill thousands of Athenian citizens (not enemies, strangers, or slaves), following the defeat in the Peloponnesian War. After the tyrants were killed and democra…

> between 5% and 15% of the citizen population in 404...

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