Willingness to look stupid • Hacker News Board

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#361

Post by tomxor » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

> So I start asking questions, and slowly begin to realize that nobody in the room has any idea what they are talking about. That there are fundamental misunderstandings and misconceptions about existing systems. And, naturally, it turns out that the questions I have are questions that other people have.

I've had similar situations, it feels analogous to group based "rubber ducking"... having someone ask the questions perceived to be known or obvious by the existing groups can be extremely beneficial for all kinds of reasons, in the same way that a rubber duck (real or imagined) will get you to re-evaluate all of your assumptions and usually get you to find the assumption that's incorrect or problematic.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#362

Post by codazoda » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:22 PM UTC

singlow wrote: post #352

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

I identify with this situation but my feelings about it are a bit different, although not intentionally. This mirrors my general disconnect with the article. In this situation I feel some anxiety or hesitation about asking these questions, but I don't feel it as a fear of appearing stupid. Instead the anxiety seems to come from worrying that I am annoying or offending everyone with questions about things that are obv…

I did support when I was in my late teens and I ALWAYS started at the very bottom, with the questions that seemed obvious, and worked my way up. Most callers thought it was annoying, so I would often prepare them for the silly simple stuff I was about to ask and ask them to humor me. It was especially painful if I was the 3rd person they had talked to.

I guess I still work this way although I've fallen out of the habit of warning people and asking them to humor me.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#363

Post by jacobolus » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

theli0nheart wrote: post #310

jacobolus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, it had been too long. I have a 5 year old and a 2.5 year old, and hang out with lots of small children. Fear of looking stupid as a beginner is something that most people have right from the start: I have watched kids be afraid of incompetence (to the point of not wanting to try) at riding a bike, running, swinging across monkey bars, drawing, singing, reading, learning a new language, ...

> Fear of looking stupid as a beginner is something that most people have right from the start I'm a parent of a 5yo and surprised this is your experience. If anything, I'd say child behavior is the perfect anti-example of fear of trying new things. Take one of the examples you provide: language. Young children ages don't care about using incorrect grammar or using the wrong words. This is why they're so good at prog…

Kids don’t mind listening to someone speaking a new language or reading them a story they can’t understand, and they don’t mind trying to communicate, but if you put them on the spot by asking them to do some kind of formal lesson, they freak out just like anyone else.

The most important thing I have found when trying to teach kids [and probably most other people too] is (1) break tasks into very small steps, (2) make the lesson as low-pressure and fun as possible.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#364

Post by dennis_jeeves » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

>That there are fundamental misunderstandings and misconceptions about existing systems.

Wait till you see the fundamental misunderstandings and misconceptions of established 'science'. It will pale in comparison with anything you have seen before.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#365

Post by arthur_sav » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

Smart (in my book) is someone that knows how to navigate this world in order to achieve ones goals.

If you don't care how you're perceived, that's fine. However, you'll be missing out on many opportunities because reputation matters.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#366

Post by johnisgood » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

I often pretended I did not know something because then I would have had to do that something every single damn time.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#367

Post by theelous3 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #24

bayindirh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studying thermals?

Maybe. But now I can't get it out of my head -- is it true that the smallest box contains the smallest laptops in general? It raises even more (admittedly pointless) questions, like "Is that true for Apple laptops, or all laptops? I bet Dell packs their tiny laptops with a bunch of peripherals or padding. A larger box might get sold more frequently." And even for Apple, are the boxes physically smaller between differ…

Fascinating? Come on.

It's clear OP _wants_ to illicit this feeling of superiority from others, as even after the fact - and with unlimited time and space - they do not state the actual reason.

Hypothetical time:

Let's say we have some reason to want to buy the laptop with the smallest box. We'll say it's some reason so incredibly intellectual we could never explain it to anyone else because everyone else is so much dumber than we are.

So, the best we can do while remaining perfectly honest is simply state we have this desire. Actually explaining it will either not work or cause the apple employee to turn in to a black hole.

So, we stand around asking them like an idiot for the laptop with the smallest box, which we know is easily misinterpreted, but for no reason at all we feel like we must remain perfectly honest. This creates a back and forth as the employee - predictably (especially so to someone of our amazing intellect) - tries desperately to help us see our error in thinking.

The whole process takes much longer and has been unpleasant for all involved.

But hey... at least we got to feel really smart?

Rubbish. The actually smart thing to do is to come up with a plausible reason for the stupid request. It's not even hard.

"This is a vanity gift for my rich employers spoiled kid, to unwrap in some stupid status showcase. None of them understand computers. I know the request is stupid, but let's just get it over with. Can you show me the smallest packaged laptops please?"

There. Nobody's time is wasted.

There is a difference between a willingness to look stupid in order to achieve your goal, and a desire to look stupid while enjoying being a conceited "smart" person at the expense of achieving your goal.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#368

Post by sharadov » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

Early in my career, I was conscious of asking these questions, so as to not appear like a fool, I thought I was expected to know the answers. I took a remote job a while back and realized that the only way to be successful in my role was to keep asking questions, learning about systems and the product. I did not care if my questions seemed stupid. I just asked away. And, it helped..immensely!

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#369

Post by mywittyname » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

mbauman wrote: post #324

stavros wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why he was asking for the smallest box, though? Isn't that an inefficient proxy? Wouldn't asking to see the computers have been more accurate?

I am really curious what his end goal here was. Apple's boxes are all very small — in what situation would a few centimeters in box size outweigh all other considerations?

I assume it has to do with sneaking the machine in and out of a place. The other alternative is something to do with storage. Maybe it's a backup machine they want hidden somewhere in case the feds seize all his electronics.

That last one makes the most sense, and explains why he didn't divulge it. That way, when the author is raided, they aren't going to ask, "hey, where's that computer that, comes in the smallest box?"

I'm imagining the author has this big book case, and one of the books is hallowed out and has an Apple machine in it. Maybe it's built into a false floor of a cabinet.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#370

Post by sharkweek » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #360

andrewla wrote: post #338

This has happened to me frequently at my current company. I get pulled into a meeting about something that I have no context on because it touches my area of expertise, and the discussions have apparently been stalling out. I brace myself to be the idiot. I'm going to waste everyone's time asking questions that everyone knows the answer to, and I just got looped in, so everyone's going to feel like they need to walk…

One of the best people I've ever worked with used this approach. "I'm going to ask stupid questions now." and "Just so I'm understanding the problem, ." were two phrases she used all the time . I am surprised at how difficult it has been to emulate her technique. Feeling comfortable asking the obvious questions is one half of the battle, but the other, more difficult half, is knowing what obvious questions to ask. Mo…

VP in my org does this, and it really disarms the room.

She’s big on that exact phrase of “this could be a really stupid question, but…”

She’s also really good about making sure other people are rewarded for doing the same by reassuring someone asking what might be a dumb question as, “that’s a a great question and I’m sure others were wondering the same…” before responding.

Great leadership, IMO.