Willingness to look stupid • Hacker News Board

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#121

Post by KennyBlanken » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

lolc wrote: post #29

sillysaurusx wrote: post #2

> Going into an Apple store and asking for (and buying) the computer that comes in the smallest box, which I had a good reason to want at the time > The person who helped me, despite being very polite, also clearly thought I was a bozo and kept explaining things like "the size of the box and the size of the computer aren't the same". Of course I knew that, but I didn't want to say something like "I design CPUs. I und…

I wondered about that story and concluded that the author knew which computer they wanted. They also knew that this computer came in the smallest box. So they only had to give that second bit of information to get what they wanted. It is a bit condescending in my view to withhold that information from the clerk. But then again, I'm only making assumptions. Also, I've done similar things where I refused to let on my i…

If it happened, he purposefully chose a request that he knew would generate confusion and discomfort in a situation with someone he has power over. It reminds me of the high school bully who fake-punches you, knowing you'll react, and then punishing you for how you react.

At best he purposefully made things more difficult than they had to be. She was absolutely right to think that he was a "bozo." I generally strive to make things as easy and painless as possible for service workers I deal with, because I've been a service worker. It wouldn't surprise me if he has never spent a day in his adult life working a service job.

Regarding whether this actually happened or not: did any notice that "small box" item is one of the few he doesn't actually explain and he's withholding information from us just like he did from the salesperson? It feels like a "look at me, I'm so very smart, watch me manipulate my audience" move.

His disdain for his readers is pretty obvious from the fact that he puts zero effort into readability; there isn't an drop of formatting, it's just a massive wall of text from edge to edge of the browser window.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#122

Post by gameswithgo » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:45 AM UTC

dan if you are around why did you want the smallest box?!

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#123

Post by verve_rat » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:45 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #37

terabytest wrote: post #27

I guess the "stupid question" I'd ask of this article is: why don't you reveal your goals or thought process when challenged after asking a question that might be perceived as stupid? Take the Apple Store example: why not explain the reason why you were asking for a product by the size of its box when they responded by saying that size of the box does not map to size of the product? Being open about your goal would'v…

But Dan Luu isn't obviously motivated by a desire to antagonize the Apple employee, and neither is he socially or morally obligated in the slightest to explain his consumer intentions during a purchase at the Apple store. And was the encounter really antagonistic? Dan Luu is the one who left looking stupid.

I disagree. He might not be morally obligated, but his is certainly socially obligated. Customers ask for the wrong thing all the time. A problem solver, as any good retail sales person should be, will ask questions to help the customer understand their own needs and the available solutions. That story just shows that Dan Luu doesn't understand the social process that happens in the retail environment.

That he doesn't care if he looks stupid is besides the point here. He looked stupid to the retail worker not because he didn't explain his underlying reasons for wanting a small box. He looked stupid because he didn't understand the retail sales process. That is to say, he was stupid, about that one thing, and that is why he looked stupid.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#124

Post by zcw100 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

I used to work with a kid who while very smart and energetic but would start every conversation as though he had started it 10 minutes ago in his head and just let it come out of his mouth when he saw you. Everything would be pronouns and it would cause an amazing amount of cognitive dissonance listening to him trying to figure out what "it" was.

The best part was how condescending he would be when you asked him to explain himself. You could tell he thought you were a dope because you couldn't follow him because in his head he was a genius.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#125

Post by FartyMcFarter » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #48

Errancer wrote: post #10

I find such willingness very helpful in many meetings with difficult vocabulary. Instead of nodding to sentences which make no sense to me I like to take the risk and admit that I have no clue what is going on. More often than not I'm not the only person who got lost so it ends up beneficial to the meeting as a whole.

Yeah. Its weird but I find doing this makes people respect you more. If you ask dumb questions, the person speaking (if they’re any good) will start looking to you to figure out if they’re pitching their language correctly. The other people in the room who didn’t understand will be relieved and quietly thankful of you because they didn’t have to be the ones to ask. And people who understood already are usually way mo…

> I don’t think I fully understand why, but asking dumb questions is often a subtle act of leadership.

Very much so. It helps establishing an environment with less ego, more helpful people, and people who aren't afraid to learn. It also diminishes feelings of imposter syndrome in other people, by showing that not everyone knows everything.

All of those are things leaders should incentivize.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#126

Post by torben-friis » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:46 AM UTC

I get the appeal of minimalism in the format, but at the very least some margins or a max line length would be welcome. Having to read this with lines extending all across the screen is ridiculous.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#127

Post by dangerface » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:50 AM UTC

lukeholder wrote: post #40

simonswords82 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess was that he needed a small box in order to fit it in his bag to take home?

Yeah but if that is true, why cause so much trouble and just said why you want the smallest box.

I think the sales person was causing the trouble tbh, if a customer knows what they want take the sale don't waste their time with 20 questions at the end of the day we both know the sales person was just trying to upsell the customer something they clearly didn't want. Its the sales persons job to take the hint and just make the sale tbh.

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#128

Post by sillysaurusx » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:51 AM UTC

locallost wrote: post #12

sillysaurusx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(OT, but nice username. "I hate when I get locallost on the way to localhost's LAN party...") The judgmental people tend not to matter in the long run, by the way. Sort of. There are two types of judgmental people. One, the people building a team, or making a bet. Two, the people looking to talk about others. The latter don't matter. The former are quick to judge because they have to be. If they're wrong about their…

Right, I don't care. It's my opinion now that I have to be open about what I think or feel because it's just how I am. So if I don't find a common language with someone, then so be it. There are 7 billion other people on the planet.

By the way, consider throwing some contact info in your profile. It sounds like you have a lot of interesting ideas, and I've gotten a lot of random emails from HN people in the past.

(I reached for your profile to email you the "nice username" thing, but there wasn't any way.)

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#129

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:52 AM UTC

jmchuster wrote: post #100

azangru wrote: post #44

There's a beautiful illustration from Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon on this topic: === They gave him an intelligence test. The first question on the math part had to do with boats on a river: Port Smith is 100 miles upstream of Port Jones. The river flows at 5 miles per hour. The boat goes through water at 10 miles per hour. How long does it take to go from Port Smith to Port Jones? How long to come back? Lawrence…

The moral of the story is that Lawrence was an idiot for not properly understanding what answer the test administrators wanted him to give?

From the wording, it sounds like he only answered the one question. Since he kept his work, all they know is that he answered at most[0] one question correctly.

[0] It's possible he gave an answer that wasn't what they expected and it was "incorrect".

Re: Willingness to look stupid

#130

Post by blfr » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 11:54 AM UTC

As a man, every condescending comment you get in person only tells you one thing: your deadlift PR is still too low.

Get jacked and all these problems disappear. No matter how silly your questions and objections, no matter how dumb they may think you are, all your concerns will be treated very seriously, criticism couched in most polite terms, and weird stuff written off as eccentric.

(It helps to be taller, well-dressed, and sound sophisticated but solid deadlift is by far the most effective.)