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Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

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Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#41

Is C910 out in the wild? Are there any dev boards with it?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003395978459.html

There were only 10 publicly available from the first batch, out of I think a total of 80.

I managed to snag one. Hopefully I'll have it mid November.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#42
post #5

Intel is gonna be in deep trouble in couple of years. They are the PowerPC of modern era. IDK what held them back from reimagining the architecture for less power hungry processors and tooling. With Mac mainstream switching to ARM and Microsoft doing something similar, I think within next 5 - 10 years ARM is gonna take over Intel architecture in general.

Macs are still a relatively small (but profitable) chunk of the computing world. The ground Intel has lost in desktop and mobile is more than made up for by their utter dominance in server. Intel also has a lot of plays that should bear fruit in holding or retaking ground on consumer compute in the next few years: 1) Arc GPUs. Looks like they will be seriously disruptive. 2) Hedging their process node bets by using T…

Macs are a small market, but Apple definitely sets trends. Once they adopt a technology, people "know" it works and it's safe to switch.

If servers can run on cheap ARM hardware that uses less electricity and runs far cooler without much of a performance difference, that's a massive improvement. Electricity savings would more than justify a switch. Apple has shown that it's possible at the desktop/laptop level. Now they or someone else can prove it works at the server level as well.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macs are still a relatively small (but profitable) chunk of the computing world. The ground Intel has lost in desktop and mobile is more than made up for by their utter dominance in server. Intel also has a lot of plays that should bear fruit in holding or retaking ground on consumer compute in the next few years: 1) Arc GPUs. Looks like they will be seriously disruptive. 2) Hedging their process node bets by using T…

From what I'm seeing, I think assuming that RISC-V CPUs being blob free and open, just because the ISA is open is illusory at best and wilfully lying at worst.

I agree that open ISA does not equate to blob free hardware. And many RISC-V designs out there will have royalties, and devices blobs.

But the open ISA levels the playing field and allows for upstart hardware designers to make compatible hardware that is royalty and/or blob free.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#44
post #5

Intel is gonna be in deep trouble in couple of years. They are the PowerPC of modern era. IDK what held them back from reimagining the architecture for less power hungry processors and tooling. With Mac mainstream switching to ARM and Microsoft doing something similar, I think within next 5 - 10 years ARM is gonna take over Intel architecture in general.

Are you comparing ARM to x86 or Intel chips specifically? Intel could design their own ARM chips…it’s an architecture family with a SUPER wide variety of implementations.

Everyone seems to be excited about the newer AMD chips which are x86.

ARM is nice for low power, low performance workloads like embedded, phones, and laptops.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macs are still a relatively small (but profitable) chunk of the computing world. The ground Intel has lost in desktop and mobile is more than made up for by their utter dominance in server. Intel also has a lot of plays that should bear fruit in holding or retaking ground on consumer compute in the next few years: 1) Arc GPUs. Looks like they will be seriously disruptive. 2) Hedging their process node bets by using T…

IMHO server marketshare is much more fickle than the consumer one. For consumers, compatibility is a big issue and hard to switch unless a myriad of things work properly. For servers, if just a single commonly used system (e.g. mariadb or wordpress) works and you can do it 10% cheaper, companies can replace large quantities of hardware to a completely different architecture.

Server marketshare has been fairly sticky -- despite AMD offering low-risk, same ISA migration, and attractive pricing, the server market was relatively slow to adopt Zen.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#46

Every time I see a headline with RISC-V in it I get excited, but then immediately disappointed that it still isn't a widely accessible product.

It's getting there.

There are getting to be a good number of SoCs reaching actual silicon in small batches, and available on relatively expensive boards ($100 to $665). They work. You can buy them.

Hopefully some of them go into mass production, which should drop the production cost for the actual chips to $5 or so and boards to something like Pi prices (there are dozens of companies that can make boards once chips are available).

Having the core and chip designed and progressed to working test silicon is by far the hardest part already done.

Price then comes down to production volume.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#47
post #36
post #5

Intel is gonna be in deep trouble in couple of years. They are the PowerPC of modern era. IDK what held them back from reimagining the architecture for less power hungry processors and tooling. With Mac mainstream switching to ARM and Microsoft doing something similar, I think within next 5 - 10 years ARM is gonna take over Intel architecture in general.

Intel had the best high performance ARM processors for a long time (StrongARM, acquired from DEC). Timing is hard.

how much of arm's renaissance comes from the iphone and qualcomm's socs?

i don't recall hearing about arm in other places really... maybe the occasional home router or cable set top box...

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#48
post #5

Intel is gonna be in deep trouble in couple of years. They are the PowerPC of modern era. IDK what held them back from reimagining the architecture for less power hungry processors and tooling. With Mac mainstream switching to ARM and Microsoft doing something similar, I think within next 5 - 10 years ARM is gonna take over Intel architecture in general.

Intel is counting on being nationalized.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#49
post #39
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Pouslbo and friends have negative prices ("contra-revenue") yet still nobody wanted them?

For those who, like me, never heard of Poulsbo, it's a chipset for Intel's first generation of Atom processors. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/chipsets/poulsbo

Poulsbo was disastrously bad, quirky, and impractical.

It took all x86 platform warts, and replaced it with even harder to get right "Poulsbo warts" like SFI, and etc.

Re: Alibaba Open Source XuanTie RISC-V Cores, Introduces In-House Armv9 Server Chip

#50
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel had the best high performance ARM processors for a long time (StrongARM, acquired from DEC). Timing is hard.

how much of arm's renaissance comes from the iphone and qualcomm's socs? i don't recall hearing about arm in other places really... maybe the occasional home router or cable set top box...

Yep, the inertia and economy of scale come from there and when the pendulum is in full swing, servers have seemed inevitable.

But timing is hard here too, and lots of things that seem inevitable take many attempts and a long to happen. ARM server chips have near history marked by struggle, there have been several over the last decade. Remember eg AMD in 2012? https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/amd-a... Or this ARM Ltd announcement: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/Server-CPU-Xeon-Opteron-AR...

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