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Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

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Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#591
post #433
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory != Speed You could throw a TB of memory in something and it won't get any faster or be of any use for 99.99% of use cases. Large ML architectures don't need more memory, they need distributed processing. Ignoring memory requirements, GPT-3 would take hundreds of years to train on a single high end GPU (on say a desktop 3090 which is >10x faster than m1) which is why they aren't trained that way (and why NVidia…

I don't disagree that there are many use cases for which more memory has diminishing returns. But I would disagree that those encompass 99.99% of use cases. Not all problems are embarrassingly-parallel. In fact, most problems aren't embarrassingly parallel. It's just that we mostly use GPUs for embarrassingly-parallel problems, because that's mostly what they're good at, and humans aren't clever enough by half to com…

> I don't disagree that there are many use cases for which more memory has diminishing returns. But I would disagree that those encompass 99.99% of use cases. Not all problems are embarrassingly-parallel. In fact, most problems aren't embarrassingly parallel.

Mindlessly throwing more memory does encompass diminishing returns in 99.99% of use cases because extra memory will inflict a very large number of TLB misses during the page fault processing or during the context switching which will slow memory access down substantially unless:

1) the TLB size in each of the L1/L2/… caches is increased; AND

2) the page size is increased, or the page size can be configured in the CPU.

Earlier versions of MIPS CPU's had a software controlled, very small sized TLB and were notorious for being slow with the memory access. Starting with A14, Apple has increased an already massive TLB, which was on top of the page size having been increased from 4kB to 16kB:

«The L1 TLB has been doubled from 128 pages to 256 pages, and the L2 TLB goes up from 2048 pages to 3072 pages. On today’s iPhones this is an absolutely overkill change as the page size is 16KB, which means that the L2 TLB covers 48MB which is well beyond the cache capacity of even the A14» [0].

It would be interesting to find out whether the TLB size is even larger in M1 Pro/Max CPU's.

[0] https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de...

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#592
post #558

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You're missing out on the fact that Apple didn't release a 12980hk or 5980hx competitor. These are 30 watt chips that trounce the competition's 65 watt (e.g. the 12980hk and 5980hx) and beyond chips. Hell, this Geekbench is faster than a desktop 125 watt 11900k. It's faster than a desktop 105 watt 5800x. Apple intentionally played to the competition here. They know AMD/Intel reach some performance level X and release…

You are vastly, vastly overestimating how many people like apple laptops. They're expensive, the OS is worse, and there's no speed difference outside of benchmarks. That combined with the fact that most apps are windows-based, and the games are poorly emulated or nonexistent, there's really no reason to buy an apple laptop short of bragging.

> They're expensive

What on earth are you talking about? The M1 Air is <$900 if one buys Apple refurbished ...

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#593
post #483

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That's Docker for Mac versus native Docker. Docker only runs on Linux, so Docker for Mac spins up a linux VM to run your containers. When you mount your Ruby or Python projects into your containers, Docker for Mac marshals tons of filesystem events over the host/guest boundary which absolutely devastates your CPU. Docker for Mac is really just bad for your use case. No idea what's going on with the thumb drive, bluet…

I used to run Docker on an older Intel Mini and it was fine--a little slow but usable. I've also used it on other Intel Macs without major issues, including running giant Java apps and SQL Server. On my M1 Mini, I found it unstable and incredibly slow (for Postgres at least, using stock images from Docker Hub) and mostly quit using it. I upgraded to the latest version recently and it was still too slow. For everythin…

What's the CPU arch of the container images you're running?

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean sure, compare your 25lbs Lenovo P52 with a 3lb MacBook Air. Not really apples to apples there bud.

I love how you read the first line, ignore the rest of the paragraph addressing your specific point, then proudly strut around like you called out a gotcha. "bud." Dell Precision. 6 core xeon, 128GB RAM, 9 hour battery life. Thin and under 7lb. Metal and solid, can run over it w/ a car just like the Lenovo you're talking about. Has had a 4k screen and keyboards that don't break or imprint on the display. 5 years ago.…

Dell Precision with Xeon CPU … this thing doesn’t even have ECC ram, so it’s a toy and not suitable for actual pros.

Seriously though, your comment lacks, because of your very narrow and specific definition of „pro“.

The vast majority of people using laptops professionally, obviously prefer a MacBook Pro over a niche Dell laptop with a Xeon CPU.

Also the Geekbench score for Xeon CPUs used in Dell Precision laptops is way below that of the M1 Pro.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#595
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30x efficiency is specifically for 16 bit FP DGEMM operations, and it is in the context of an HPC compute node including GPUs and any other accelerators or fixed function units. For general purpose compute, so such luck unfortunately. Performance and efficiency follows process technology to a first order approximation. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-increase-efficiency-of...

also bear in mind that AMD's standards for these "challenges" have always involved some "funny math", like their previous 25x20 goal, where they considered a 5.02x average gain in performance (10x in CB R15 and 2.5x in 3D Mark 11) at iso-power (same TDP) to be a "32x efficiency gain" because they divided it by idle power or some shit like that. But 5x average performance gain at the same TDP doesn't mean you do 32x a…

To be fair idle power is really important for a lot of use cases.

In a compute focused cloud environment you might be able to have most of your hardware pegged by compute most of the time, but outside of that CPUs spend most of their time either very far under 100% capacity, or totally idle.

In order to actually calculate real efficiency gains you'd probably have to measure power usage under various scenarios though, not just whatever weird math they did here.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#596
post #580

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> It might be a long time before it makes sense to buy a non-Apple laptop. ...if you only care about the things that Apple laptops are good at. Almost nobody needs a top-of-the-line laptop to do their tasks. Most things that people want to do with computers can be done on a machine that is five to ten years old without any trouble at all. For example I use a ThinkPad T460p, and while the geekbench scores for its proc…

This is a really useless comparison. A 10 year old laptop will be extremely slow compared to any modern laptop and the battery will have degraded. The T460 has knock off battery replacements floating around but that’s not exactly reassuring. Granted: it works for you (and me, actually, I’m one of those people who likes to use an old thinkpad; x201s in my case though I mostly use a dell precision these days) but peopl…

Not everyone needs 15+ hours of battery life. I'd argue that most people don't. Laptops were extremely popular when the battery life was two hours. Now even older laptops get 5h+.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#597
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are vastly, vastly overestimating how many people like apple laptops. They're expensive, the OS is worse, and there's no speed difference outside of benchmarks. That combined with the fact that most apps are windows-based, and the games are poorly emulated or nonexistent, there's really no reason to buy an apple laptop short of bragging.

> They're expensive What on earth are you talking about? The M1 Air is <$900 if one buys Apple refurbished ...

Are you really comparing a refurbished laptop to a new one so you can find a price that matches?

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong: It's impressive and I have huge respect for it. I also bought one. However, it would be surprising if Apple's new 5nm chip didn't beat AMD's older 7nm chip at this point. Apple specifically bought out all of TSMC's 5nm capacity for themselves while AMD was stuck on 7nm (for now). It will be interesting to see how AMD's new 6000 series mobile chips perform. According to rumors they might be launche…

It wouldn't be a surprise that a CPU that can't run most of the software out there (because that software is x86) and has ditched all compatibility and started a design from scratch, can beat last-gen CPUs from competitors. For specific apps and workloads, for which it has accelerators. But here I am, with a pretty thin and very durable laptop that has a 6 core Xeon in it. It gets hot, it has huge fans, and it comple…

Intel tried to ”design down” their uArch.

Also, there is a TON of pro Mac users. If we define ’pro’ as getting paid for work done on Macs..

Not to mention M1 emulates x86 pretty darn well..

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#599
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really useless comparison. A 10 year old laptop will be extremely slow compared to any modern laptop and the battery will have degraded. The T460 has knock off battery replacements floating around but that’s not exactly reassuring. Granted: it works for you (and me, actually, I’m one of those people who likes to use an old thinkpad; x201s in my case though I mostly use a dell precision these days) but peopl…

Not everyone needs 15+ hours of battery life. I'd argue that most people don't. Laptops were extremely popular when the battery life was two hours. Now even older laptops get 5h+.

So what is the trade off you think you’re making?

This is weird. I feel like I’m talking to someone who has a fixed opinion against something. It’s good for _everyone_ that these chips are as fast as the best chips on the market, have crazy low power consumption and the cost for new is comparable.

Intel have been overcharging for more than a decade when innovation stagnated.

Honestly, I’m not so hot on Apple (FD I am sending this from an iPhone), I prefer to run Linux on my machines but I would not advocate everyone to do that. Just like I wouldn’t advise people to buy old shoes because it’s cheaper. These machines are compelling even for me, a person who relishes the flexibility of a more open platform — I can not imagine myself not recommending them to someone who just uses office suites or communication software. The M1 is basically the best thing you can buy right now for the consumer; and the cost is equivalent for other business machines such as HPs elitebooks or dells latitude or xps lineup.

And for power users: the only good argument you can make is that your tools don’t work for it or you don’t like macos.

If you’re arguing a system to be worse: you’ve lost.

Re: Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score

#600

I just can't figure out what I'm missing on the "M1 is so fast" side of things. For years I worked* on an Ubuntu desktop machine I built myself. Early this year I switched to a brand new M1 mini and this this is slower and less reliable than the thing I built myself that runs Ubuntu. My Ubuntu machine had a few little issues every no and then. My Mini has weird bugs all the time. e.g. Green Screen Crashes when I have…

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