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GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

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Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#51

Post by eropple »

pwg wrote: post #48
eropple wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you ever break out of your ms-windows mindset and actually give focus follows mouse a try, focus follows mouse is actually the more powerful method. Not this again. Focus-follows-mouse is different , not more powerful . It provides a different way of working that not everyone agrees with and not everyone wants to use. Seriously, get over yourself.

Yes, it is different. But it is that very difference that makes it much more powerful of a UI convention. If you had ever experienced it, you'd understand.

I've used both. I have no preference and can work in either; it doesn't affect me either way. Your argument is to false authority.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#52

Post by bronson »

windsurfer wrote: post #33
pwg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> almost certainly the most common use case [click-to-focus] Most common only if you are coming from a ms-windows background. Click-to-focus is only a relatively recent newcomer to the Unix/X-Windows system in the scheme of how long X-Windows has existed. And if you ever break out of your ms-windows mindset and actually give focus follows mouse a try, focus follows mouse is actually the more powerful method.

The new window managers are a hybrid. Mouse events are focus follows mouse, while keyboard events are focus follows click. This allows you to highlight a bit of text and middle click on another window to paste, but leave the focus on the first window and continue typing, for instance. It also allows you to code in an editor while scrolling a documentation window. MS Windows is only focus follows mouse.

Citation please. I love focus-follows-mouse but this sounds downright confusing. Do windows have different highlights to show where mouse and keyboard events will go?

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#53

Post by yason »

gst wrote: post #11
blub wrote: post #8

I have been using GIMP for 9 months and the UI is exasperating. It's not just multi-window mode, things like the way the windows are rendered and designed, focus issues, shortcuts, missing features and a lot of other annoyances. The most disappointing thing is that I'm not even doing intensive graphical work, just retouching some photos, moving things around, resizing, etc.

The UI works quite well with a focus-follows-mouse policy - as it has been standard in Unix for decades. With today's click-to-focus window managers the UI is just horrible (but that's not Gimp's fault).

Haven't seen a default configuration of focus-follows-mouse for quite a while on any "big" Linux desktops. I always turn it on manually the first thing I touch a new system so it's not a big problem. However, a bigger problem is that finding a strict focus-follows-mouse is getting more difficult: for example Metacity can't do it, only sloppy focus-follows-mouse.

But the strict one would be the real focus-follows-mouse: with that you never lose the focus unintentionally since the focus is always under the mouse cursor. With sloppy focus, a newly opened window might of might not steal the focus regardless of the mouse position, and I quite often find myself typing into the wrong window after that.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#54

Post by jamesteow »

CrLf wrote: post #43

Single-window mode has been one of the most requested features for GIMP. Fact: when it finally comes, no one will care (they never did). Actually, the multi-window interface is much better when you have virtual-desktops (everywhere but Windows) or multiple screens. Pixelmator on the Mac is a multi-window application (like most Mac apps are) and I don't see anyone complaining about it. The problems are: 1. GIMP isn't…

I tend to agree.

My background: I've been using Photoshop for about fifteen years nearly everyday.

Just to be more informed, I decided to download Mac version of GIMP.

What I like: - Feels much more nimble, lightweight

- Seems like it has most of core tools I need

What prevents me from using it: - The interface seems really unfinished. I think that's what I like about Pixelmator: it's polished and looks somewhat similar to Photoshop's layout

- The shortcuts are all different. I'm not even sure I can customize the shortcuts in some of the contexts as even some of the ones in Photoshop are sort of built in. That alone would be a huge deterrent as I rarely click on any interfaces.

- Layer effects and smart objects. I know they are in the Roadmap but without them, I can't re-use elements others or I have made from Photoshop and it does effect image creation.

- Masking is a little kludgy. When I imported my PSDs with shape masking, they all disappeared. Does it support vector masking?

- Doesn't seem to support importing vectors from Illustrator as it automatically outputs some of the elements as raster elements.

- Lack of layer folders.

The whole single-window mode? I think that wouldn't nearly entice me as it's not that much of a deterrent.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#56

Post by choice »

jamesteow wrote: post #54
CrLf wrote: post #43

Single-window mode has been one of the most requested features for GIMP. Fact: when it finally comes, no one will care (they never did). Actually, the multi-window interface is much better when you have virtual-desktops (everywhere but Windows) or multiple screens. Pixelmator on the Mac is a multi-window application (like most Mac apps are) and I don't see anyone complaining about it. The problems are: 1. GIMP isn't…

I tend to agree. My background: I've been using Photoshop for about fifteen years nearly everyday. Just to be more informed, I decided to download Mac version of GIMP. What I like: - Feels much more nimble, lightweight - Seems like it has most of core tools I need What prevents me from using it: - The interface seems really unfinished. I think that's what I like about Pixelmator: it's polished and looks somewhat simi…

I agree with all those points, but especially vector smart objects and vector masks/paths; it's insane how useful they are. Those features alone are worth paying for Photoshop.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#57

Post by windsurfer »

bronson wrote: post #52
windsurfer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new window managers are a hybrid. Mouse events are focus follows mouse, while keyboard events are focus follows click. This allows you to highlight a bit of text and middle click on another window to paste, but leave the focus on the first window and continue typing, for instance. It also allows you to code in an editor while scrolling a documentation window. MS Windows is only focus follows mouse.

Citation please. I love focus-follows-mouse but this sounds downright confusing. Do windows have different highlights to show where mouse and keyboard events will go?

Citation? Sorry, but it's been in Ubuntu for ages, and that's what I use.

As for the visual cues, it looks a lot like OS X. Currently focused windows has a highlighted top bar and pronounced shadows and is in front of other windows. As for where the keyboard and mouse events... keyboarrd goes to focused window, mouse goes to where you click. It makes sense.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#58

Post by drivingmenuts »

pwg wrote: post #48
eropple wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you ever break out of your ms-windows mindset and actually give focus follows mouse a try, focus follows mouse is actually the more powerful method. Not this again. Focus-follows-mouse is different , not more powerful . It provides a different way of working that not everyone agrees with and not everyone wants to use. Seriously, get over yourself.

Yes, it is different. But it is that very difference that makes it much more powerful of a UI convention. If you had ever experienced it, you'd understand.

All the power in the world doesn't matter if it's not what the user wants or expects.

Which gets right to the core of GIMP's marketing problems. For years, users wanted a cheap Photoshop clone ... they got GIMP. Because it's not a near-clone of PS, it hasn't caught on as well outside a small group.

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#59

Post by bronson »

windsurfer wrote: post #57
bronson wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation please. I love focus-follows-mouse but this sounds downright confusing. Do windows have different highlights to show where mouse and keyboard events will go?

Citation? Sorry, but it's been in Ubuntu for ages, and that's what I use. As for the visual cues, it looks a lot like OS X. Currently focused windows has a highlighted top bar and pronounced shadows and is in front of other windows. As for where the keyboard and mouse events... keyboarrd goes to focused window, mouse goes to where you click. It makes sense.

I'm using FFM in Ubuntu classic (non-Unity) right now. Mouse and keyboard events go to the highlighted window and the highlight follows the mouse (with a few minor exceptions which is why some people call it sloppy focus). Clicking doesn't affect where the events go.

Not sure what you're talking about...? Maybe plain old click-to-raise like Mac and Windows?

Re: GIMP Single-Window Mode Almost Ready, Hardware Acceleration Planned

#60

Post by rat »

BDFL_Xenu wrote: post #35
gst wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UI works quite well with a focus-follows-mouse policy - as it has been standard in Unix for decades. With today's click-to-focus window managers the UI is just horrible (but that's not Gimp's fault).

So that's the justification? That the GIMP expects WM settings that were only the default on TWM and the like over 15 years ago? Well, I must say that I haven't seen any other application of its size take the "NO WARRANTY" shouting of the GPL so seriously. This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PAR…

I'm fairly sure most closed source applications also Include something of a "NO Waranty as much to the degree allowed by law".
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