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Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

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Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#241

Post by thow-58d4e8b »

iso1631 wrote: post #176
Freak_NL wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the given reasons the municipality pursues this. There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands, so that gives some context to this.

> There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands Is there any western city where there isn't a housing crisis?

Finland is ok. A square meter in the capital area goes for about 1.5 months of net average wage, and about a monthly income in other provincial towns. A decent house can be had for ~10 years of single income

The benefits of not being a tourist destination

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#242

Post by brezelgoring »

bennysomething wrote: post #231
brezelgoring wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All other things being equal, yes. Ceteris Paribus is a thing in economics. Basically what he means is that if you optimize everything in your business, all that remains is what is outside the bounds of the law, if you cheat, you'll win, basically forcing the other to cheat as well. Also, all big businesses cheat tax, either by using creative licensing agreements between subsidiaries or by miscategorizing things. Thi…

Sorry, I competed absolutely fine when I had an Airbnb rented out for a year. I certainly paid my tax. I didn't cheat anyone. Your proposition that to compete I must cheat doesn't stand up. Individuals chose airbnbs based on quite a few variables. The only time things are going to be equal is if the units for rent are identically positioned, decorated to same standard, have the same furniture and appliances.

>[...] The only time things are going to be equal is if the units for rent are identically positioned, decorated to same standard, have the same furniture and appliances

I agree, I mentioned this in my previous comment. >[...] Basically what he means is that if you optimize everything in your business [...]

Ceteris Paribus is a theoretical exercise or tool, if you will, but it is useful in trying to understand one of the variables involved in a calculation.

We're not disagreeing here, you don't have to cheat, nor should you, but if both of you had clone apartments one in front of the other but your neighbor doesn't pay tax, he's going to get picked first, every time.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#243

Post by elzbardico »

Etheryte wrote: post #136
dorchadas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully to the long-term market.

As an expat living in the Netherlands I've seen this up close, but in most part it seems this is temporary. Many properties that were previously Airbnb-d were put up for rental, but only for short contracts of a year or two at most. This leads me to believe that many of those listings hope to return to Airbnb once tourism and the like picks up again.

Yes, they are probably just waiting for the pandemics to end to go back to short term.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#244

Post by Ekaros »

thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #241
iso1631 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a housing crisis in the Netherlands Is there any western city where there isn't a housing crisis?

Finland is ok. A square meter in the capital area goes for about 1.5 months of net average wage, and about a monthly income in other provincial towns. A decent house can be had for ~10 years of single income The benefits of not being a tourist destination

10 years considering the taxes still makes it pretty bad... Really why I don't want to live there. Other cities are somewhat more sane, but still should be cheaper.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#245

Post by dagw »

null_object wrote: post #112
dagw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you purchase a flat, it's under the implicit assumption that you or your family will be the only ones occupying it I also live in Sweden and that is a very Sweden specific assumption. Even just across the border in Norway that assumption doesn't hold. Sweden on the whole is very anti small private landlords and have lots of laws making it basically impossible to make money by buying a few flats and renting them ou…

> Sweden on the whole is very anti small private landlords and have lots of laws making it basically impossible to make money by buying a few flats and renting them out, but that is also a pretty uniquely Swedish take on the property market. This is an extremely idealized version of the real situation - at least in Stockholm. Here, the only real cap on the number of apartments being bought for (often illegal) hire, i…

You're of course right. I should have written that Swedish law is very anti small private landlords and that legally making money by buying a couple of flats and renting them out is basically impossible.

In fact when I moved back to Sweden after working abroad for a few years after University I spend the first 18 month living in a illegally rented flat, so I'm painfully aware of how the system works in real life.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#246

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

hatchnyc wrote: post #222
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps there's something deeply wrong with western housing systems? I don't want to sound too radical, but this seems to be inextricably connected to capitalism. We won't ever solve it without structural changes. What Amsterdam is doing is a decent start at least.

It's old vs young, new vs established. For most homeowners, their home is their most valuable asset. It's just not possible to simultaneously maintain high property values and have affordable housing. Given this, any "solution" to housing affordability is "solving" a problem that a sizable and highly influential segment of the population doesn't want solved. On the contrary, you see real government action whenever ho…

That's a good point. By some measures it isn't just the wealthy keeping the poor vulnerable; it's everyone who isn't poor. In this case, middle class voters.

In the US, our shortsightedness has begun threatening the lower-middle class. People with some cash in the bank are facing homelessness, due to a historic lack of housing. The housing shortage came following dozens of contributors including NIMBY, AirBnB, single-use zoning, tunnel-vision'd pols/voters, corp house buyers, etc. Pointing to a single factor delays solutions.

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#247

Post by lnxg33k1 »

FredPret wrote: post #232
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rich getting richer at the cost of a whole bunch of individuals getting f* ked, hospitality staff is still being underpaid with 0hours contracts, and tenants are still being f* ked with increased housing prices, so COVID was quite good for lower classes, and I have no sympathy for the upper ones, the worst they get, the happier I am

You seem swell. Give those 0 hour contract workers an actual zero hours (and lower bargaining power due to lower demand), just to stick it to the upper class. Super!

It's giving people the pressure to obtain other means of survival, as we've seen, when the restaurants closed, the people in hospitality were able to have time to learn other things and changed careers, so that right now the whole industry can't find enough people. Good thing, so I am not sure what is your point, to have a sector which can only survive by exploiting workers because there is nothing else? There is something else, as we're seeing

And as far as I'm seeing, their bargaining power is only going up, workers can survive without their bosses, it's the bosses that get richer by thieving wealth from their workers

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#248

Post by mschuster91 »

jaynetics wrote: post #235
mschuster91 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half-Croat, half-German from Munich here. To add some perspective - tourism is a double edged sword for popular destinations, and it's... worse than a serious heroin addiction for everyone, in the end. On one side, many tourist destinations are happy to share the beauty of their landscape, the clean beaches, historical areas and the likes. And they make lots of money from it. On the other side, it's extremely easy to…

I think the "heroin" comparison is needlessly dramatic. "Over-tourism" as you describe it is just one possible symptom of excessive capitalism. There are many nice spots with tourists, and many ways to ruin a place without any tourists when regulations are lax or poorly enforced, e.g. privatization and massive price increases in the crucial infrastructure, or reckless industrial projects. And some things are just dum…

> Of course Oktoberfest sucks for the locals

I don't care much about 2 weeks of drunkards. The problem is that the hotel supply is excessive as it's scaled to the peak demand times Oktoberfest and Bauma (construction fair) - the average occupancy is only 50% (https://www.welt.de/regionales/bayern/article172019924/Exper...).

Assuming a total of ~85k hotel rooms, that is room to house 40.000 people!

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#249

Post by namdnay »

azemetre wrote: post #210
debarshri wrote: post #129

It was really weird walking in Amsterdam during summer this time around. Generally for past few year, I had seen explosions of tourists doing a weekend tours. There used to be barely any foot space to walk near dam square and shopping streets. This time I just was able to be make an appoint for Anne Frank museum a day before and simply walk in without a queue. This is the conundrum of tourism. If you too much tourist…

Aren't you forgetting the massive global pandemic that has surely impacted how, where, and when people vacation? Kinda hard to blame too much "disney-ification" on lack of tourists when tourism is being hit hard every where.

I don't think they were blaming the lack fo tourists on anything - just saying that it was nice to have fewer of them

Re: Airbnb removes 80% of advertisements in Amsterdam after registration obligation

#250

Post by tecleandor »

tamcap wrote: post #211
yetihehe wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Written notification about tried delivery of a letter or package which can only be received in person. If you are not home, you can go to nearest post office and receive it there. Sorry, I thought it's english word.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/avis#Old_French Wiktionary says it comes from Latin. In English "advise", alas, not used in the common language in regards to mail, like it is used in Polish (and Czech?).

In Spanish 'aviso' would be 'notice' or 'warning'. Italian 'avviso' is kind of similar.
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