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Colin Powell has died

cnn.com

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Re: Colin Powell has died

#111

Post by basisword »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #24

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performa…

I find it interesting that you frame fighting in Vietnam as something admiral. I can understand why those drafted against their will may have chose the option but surely the most admiral thing to do would have been to refuse and suffer the consequences?

Re: Colin Powell has died

#112

Post by heartbreak »

015a wrote: post #83
aazaa wrote: post #69

Original title: "Colin Powell, military leader and first Black US secretary of state, dies after complications from Covid-19" From the article: > "We have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great American," they said, noting he was fully vaccinated. The ongoing high profile, fatal breakthrough Covid-19 cases should not be underestimated. They are to be expected statistically, but taken in…

I hate that phrase: "They are to be expected" I expect better. I expect a vaccine that would have saved Colin's life.

If you think the mRNA vaccines aren’t the best we can do right now, then why don’t you use that deep knowledge of vaccine development and make one yourself?

Re: Colin Powell has died

#113

Post by eric_b »

Some truly wild comments in this thread. The moral self-righteousness of the commenters here is really something to behold. I'm particularly saddened by so many of the obviously partisan comments.

From my recollection it was Barack Obama who continued the conflict in Afghanistan and was responsible for scores of extra-judicial assassinations throughout the world.

And while many people died in the Afghanistan conflict and it was a terrible tragedy, the silver lining was that many women gained new liberties. Education wasn't just for men, for awhile. Of course Joe Biden put a stop to that, didn't he?

Colin Powell did plenty of bad things, but the same folks crucifying him probably have a copy of "Dreams from my Father" in their library and have absolved the equally complicit left-leaning politicians of any crimes.

Every single national politician is a self-interested, amoral, shit-bag. Lionizing one side while pillorying the other is not helpful. All politicians should have less power, less influence and less money, across the board. Only then will things get better.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#114

Post by michaelt »

afavour wrote: post #13
hawk_ wrote: post #8

I won't understand respect for someone who was reponsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of people because he lied.

I’m no fan of Colin Powell but IMO the responsibility for those deaths does not fall on him specifically. The US was going to war in Iraq with or without the UN’s backing, everything Powell did was window dressing. False, deceitful and criminal window dressing, but still.

I guess the war was nobody's doing, huh? Powell just jumped on the bandwagon when was was already inevitable. Blair thought the US was implacable, and wanted to bring the UN along so the UN didn't look powerless. GWB was a lovable idiot, whose only mistake was having too much faith in his advisers.

It's true what they say - success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#115

Post by lowkey_ »

This is one of many obituary posts on HN I've seen a ton of hate and accusations on, along with questions like "why does everyone venerate the dead regardless of their acts in life?"

Some of us have a different threshold than others for at what point a life is valuable, and the loss of that life tragic.

While there can be a time and place for discussions of the 2003 UN performance, calling someone a war criminal, ragging on our military, and so forth — this is really the absolute last place for you to take out those grievances. There's always plenty of other threads, and you can create your own.

There's an old adage of "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." I don't generally believe that, and in fact HN's willingness to lay valid and accurate criticism is one of its best qualities, but attached to news of a person's death — a controversial person even — is the last place it belongs.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#117

Post by merpnderp »

h2odragon wrote: post #45
AndrewBissell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles,…

Many disagree. As to "company man" ... Watch "Mars Attacks!" for the best portrayal of Colin Powell to hit the big screen.

Do they disagree with any arguments, or just wishful thinking? My Lai and the UN are just the most glaring examples of him putting his career before everything else.

I still don't understand how a person who tried to cover up (in the most laughably inept manner) the massacre of civilians by the US Army didn't spend the rest of his life as a pariah, let alone get positive press in the media for decades. Then add in his lying to the UN to start a war and you wonder if there's no crime that can't be forgiven as long as that person supports the powers that be.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#118

Post by jl6 »

To help keep things grounded, here’s the UN’s definition of war crime:

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

Before throwing around the accusation of “war criminal”, take a look and try to determine which crime the accused committed.

A politician lying on a grave matter may be reprehensible or even unforgivable, but let’s not debase language with undue exaggeration.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#119

Post by NoGravitas »

015a wrote: post #83
aazaa wrote: post #69

Original title: "Colin Powell, military leader and first Black US secretary of state, dies after complications from Covid-19" From the article: > "We have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great American," they said, noting he was fully vaccinated. The ongoing high profile, fatal breakthrough Covid-19 cases should not be underestimated. They are to be expected statistically, but taken in…

I hate that phrase: "They are to be expected" I expect better. I expect a vaccine that would have saved Colin's life.

He was 84 and had multiple myeloma, which means he was immunocompromised. If it hadn't been COVID-19, it would have been something else.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#120

Post by marricks »

lowkey_ wrote: post #115

This is one of many obituary posts on HN I've seen a ton of hate and accusations on, along with questions like "why does everyone venerate the dead regardless of their acts in life?" Some of us have a different threshold than others for at what point a life is valuable, and the loss of that life tragic. While there can be a time and place for discussions of the 2003 UN performance, calling someone a war criminal, rag…

No an obituary and discussions of a person’s passing must take into account their failings, especially their greatest ones. Otherwise we will begin to forget those mistakes and be doomed to repeat.

In particular the failings that lead up to the Iraq war are common place in US history so every effort must be made to remember and be wary of such mistakes (or lies rather).

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