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Colin Powell has died

cnn.com

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Re: Colin Powell has died

#51

Post by callmeal »

asteroidbelt wrote: post #21
hawk_ wrote: post #8

I won't understand respect for someone who was reponsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of people because he lied.

If you are talking about Iraq, these people were not exactly living happy lives under Saddam rule. Colin lie is inexcusable, but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq. Net zero at least. (Feel free to downvote, downvote is used for disagreement on HN these days.)

>Colin lie is inexcusable, but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq.

Well, citizens of Iraq tend to disagree with you.

https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-life-in-iraq-was-...

Not to mention all the destruction of priceless monuments that the war brought about: https://www.jstor.org/stable/24590678

Re: Colin Powell has died

#52

Post by bluedevil2k »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #36
CapricornNoble wrote: post #24

Colin Powell is a textbook case of "A thousand 'Atta-boys!' and one fuck-up!". He joined the Army in the 1950s, served through 2 tours in Vietnam, and made it all the way to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs by the end of the 1980s, leading the military through Operation Desert Storm and the post-Soviet era. That's a rare career for ANY American, let alone a black one. But all that went "poof!" after his shameful performa…

I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles,…

> I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either

Did you see any other black men doing the same thing?

Re: Colin Powell has died

#53

Post by marricks »

disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

You don’t get rewarded for questioning the state (or any large power) unfortunately, at least not in media attention or promotions.

That said, of course he should have.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#54

Post by bartread »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #16
disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. When was the last time you heard anything from Phil Donahue?

Phil Donahue is 85. I imagine he's been taking things a bit easier for 10 or 15 years. It's not as though Colin Powell has been making headlines for a while either, and for no doubt similar reasons. This has nothing to do with whether or not he should have taken a stand against the war in Iraq. I agree with disneygibson: Colin Powell had an exceptional career, all of which led up to that moment, where he simply blew it.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#55

Post by scythe »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #16
disneygibson wrote: post #11

Imagine if he had resigned in protest at the decision to push for the invasion of Iraq. He would now be hailed as a hero around the world. Instead, he didn’t. What a waste of an exceptional career.

No one who was against the Iraq War from the onset is doing particularly well. When was the last time you heard anything from Phil Donahue?

I don't know about that. Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul both raised their profile significantly, and while there have been hiccups since then, they're both much more prominent than they were before 2003 — Ron Paul's son may have even benefited by association.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#56

Post by pmarreck »

asteroidbelt wrote: post #21
hawk_ wrote: post #8

I won't understand respect for someone who was reponsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of people because he lied.

If you are talking about Iraq, these people were not exactly living happy lives under Saddam rule. Colin lie is inexcusable, but Iraq war was a good thing for Iraq. Net zero at least. (Feel free to downvote, downvote is used for disagreement on HN these days.)

My understanding is that the entire area is just brutal in general and Saddam was actually the least evil solution available at the time. He held it together through brutality, but he still apparently held it together, and now look at it.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#58

Post by uncletaco »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #52
AndrewBissell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either. Powell did the job he did at the UN because he was a company man and had been for a long time. And in addition to a few tut-tuts and a black mark on his record, it also kept him in the good graces of the Washington foreign policy blob, with all the sinecures, speaking fees, magazine profiles,…

> I don't really see rising through the ranks of the U.S. military through the 70s/80s/90s as particularly praiseworthy either Did you see any other black men doing the same thing?

The answer is yes but of course none were as famous or went as far as Powell.

Re: Colin Powell has died

#60

Post by bhouston »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17

Around half a million innocent Afghani and Iraqi civilians died in Afghanistan and Iraq during those wars. I dont understand why the American news media neglected to report on that. Another interesting observation: Halliburton ran the supply chain for both the Vietnam war and the Gulf wars. Not alot of sympathy from me for that guy.

I was against the Iraq war as well. It was clearly based on lies. It also lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

What surprised me and I noticed then when Donald Rumsfeld died. Both Iraqi and Afghanistan have nearly doubled their populations since 2001:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/iraq-populati...

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/afghanistan-p...

I wonder if that was partly resulting from the aid both of them got after the US invasions? Or just general population trends in Middle East countries? From my quick study it appears they have higher population growth than surrounding countries.

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