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Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

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Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#91

Post by prox »

pesenti wrote: post #85
prox wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook got a penalty, but the main gripe is probably that it shouldn’t have been necessary to give one in the first place. I think what is on everyones mind is : “how can we trust a company that has a bad track record?” I think in the coming years FB should invest more in a public conversation on these issues. How can we meet the future in a way that our data is in factuality is our data, even though it’s stored by…

My point in linking to the settlement wasn't about the fine, it was about the guarantees, oversight, and accountability that came with it. Read the FTC news release, and you'll see that these are pretty extensive. And I agree completely on the public conversation, this is why we released this dataset and why we are doing project Aria.

Understood, and I reread the article just in case. My point is/was that it must come as a natural impulse to be privacy sensitive. Privacy hopefully becomes part of the culture / dna of Facebook, not just because the FCC and the privacy board are looking over your shoulders, so to say :)

How do we prevent becoming “walkable surveillance machines”? How can we control the scope and and the issue of consent? These are more rhetorical questions, but hopefully it is part of the dialogue internally at FB.

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#92

Post by pine390 »

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #83
pesenti wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to read the details of the news, in particular how the data was collected with full consent from all (something that most research datasets don’t do well). It doesn’t answer your question directly but gives you an idea on how we think about these issues. AI-powered wearables will have stringent privacy guarantees, both for the wearer and the people around.

HN user asks a simple and direct question to Facebook's VP of AI: > What are you all doing to allow those of us that don’t want to be a part of your utopia to opt out? Answer from Facebook VP of AI: > I encourage you to read the details of the news that doesn't actually answer your question but gives you an idea of how we think I'm glad to see that even on a industry-specific forum like Hacker News, we can't get stra…

This reminds me of the squid game when they say “You signed a disclaimer of physical rights today, didn’t you?”

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#93

Post by amelius »

pesenti wrote: post #39

I support Facebook AI. The actual news is that we are releasing an extensive egocentric dataset with associated tasks for the research community. Collecting such dataset in a private and responsible way is a significant challenge. Happy to answer any questions. https://ai.facebook.com/blog/teaching-ai-to-perceive-the-wor...

Glad for you that you collected such a nice dataset.

Wouldn't it be nice if selected external researchers too could collect data on the Facebook platform with the explicit consent of users?

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#94

Post by pessimizer »

faeyanpiraat wrote: post #27
blackoil wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional Media. Politicians. Competing Social Networks. Also other tech. companies as FB is sucking up all media/political/people's energy and the rest can cruise current wave unharmed.

What social networks are you referring to?

Not worth asking. It's part of a bizarre theory that Big Media is not only a single cabal, but that cabal is constantly whiteboarding attacks on the tech companies that have bought large pieces of it.

I think it's for two reasons: 1) it's scarier to think that Big Media and Big Tech are getting along swimmingly despite a few minor conflicts and necessary keyfabe for the plebs, and 2) people who do horrible things for money in Big Tech want to feel better about themselves, and want people to think well of them (not like they think of people who worked at AIG, Arthur Andersen, or Countrywide.)

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#95

Post by jjulius »

pesenti wrote: post #61
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you all doing to allow those of us that don’t want to be a part of your utopia to opt out?

I encourage you to read the details of the news, in particular how the data was collected with full consent from all (something that most research datasets don’t do well). It doesn’t answer your question directly but gives you an idea on how we think about these issues. AI-powered wearables will have stringent privacy guarantees, both for the wearer and the people around.

>I encourage you to read the details of the news, in particular how the data was collected with full consent from all (something that most research datasets don’t do well).

I don't care to hear about the consent you received for this controlled study. I care to hear about how I/we can opt-out from something like this when it is eventually deployed in the wild en masse as part of an actual product. I'm pretty sure that's what OP was also asking about. Can you elaborate on that?

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#96

Post by thr0wawayf00 »

pesenti wrote: post #89
thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN user asks a simple and direct question to Facebook's VP of AI: > What are you all doing to allow those of us that don’t want to be a part of your utopia to opt out? Answer from Facebook VP of AI: > I encourage you to read the details of the news that doesn't actually answer your question but gives you an idea of how we think I'm glad to see that even on a industry-specific forum like Hacker News, we can't get stra…

The question was about opting out of our "utopia", I wouldn't call that a "straightforward question". If you do have a straightforward question, especially about this or another specific project, I can try to provide a straightforward answer.

Great! How do I make sure that nothing about me ever passes through a Facebook server/ETL job/datalake/neural net/whatever? Can that even be guaranteed? Is Facebook generating a shadow profile on me or using data I've generated either myself or through friends that have taken pictures/videos/etc of me, and if maybe, how do I opt out?

Facebook just released Ray Ban smart glasses that don't look any different from standard Ray Bans and don't provide a solid design affordance to communicate to others when they're active, so I don't really get the feeling that Facebook cares at all about who is being swept up in their systems.

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#97

Post by knownjorbist »

pesenti wrote: post #39

I support Facebook AI. The actual news is that we are releasing an extensive egocentric dataset with associated tasks for the research community. Collecting such dataset in a private and responsible way is a significant challenge. Happy to answer any questions. https://ai.facebook.com/blog/teaching-ai-to-perceive-the-wor...

Maximizing a manipulation engine is not what we as a species need to be investing any time or effort into.

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#98

Post by pesenti »

amelius wrote: post #93
pesenti wrote: post #39

I support Facebook AI. The actual news is that we are releasing an extensive egocentric dataset with associated tasks for the research community. Collecting such dataset in a private and responsible way is a significant challenge. Happy to answer any questions. https://ai.facebook.com/blog/teaching-ai-to-perceive-the-wor...

Glad for you that you collected such a nice dataset. Wouldn't it be nice if selected external researchers too could collect data on the Facebook platform with the explicit consent of users?

Here is a link to all the tools we provide: https://research.fb.com/data/

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#99

Post by pessimizer »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #38
ToddWBurgess wrote: post #22

And this is why you need ad blockers and privacy protection plugins for your web browser. If you can't stop Facebook snooping on you at least make it hard for them. As my grandfather taught me, "if you can't win then make it hard for the other guy to win."

I don't like this pattern in calls to action. The pattern starts with an implicit hopelessness of affecting any external change and results in all responsibility being assumed by the individual. This is an antipattern of change. It does not need to be perpetuated because it reproduces the permanence of the constructs we want to dismantle. Even more importantly, these entities are fully aware of this and craftily guid…

Change isn't caused by strength of belief; it's magic that only works based on how hard you believe in it.

Collective action doesn't do itself, and the words "collective action" don't constitute a plan. Individual evasions at least make things more expensive to do.

Also, individual action doesn't crowd out collective action. Not protecting yourself doesn't create collective action. A concrete plan with concrete individual actions to take creates collective action. Individual sacrifice to create institutions creates collective action. IMO you should be ready to tell people where to show up before you tell them not to help themselves.

Re: Facebook is researching AI systems that see, hear, remember everything you do

#100

Post by pesenti »

prox wrote: post #91
pesenti wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point in linking to the settlement wasn't about the fine, it was about the guarantees, oversight, and accountability that came with it. Read the FTC news release, and you'll see that these are pretty extensive. And I agree completely on the public conversation, this is why we released this dataset and why we are doing project Aria.

Understood, and I reread the article just in case. My point is/was that it must come as a natural impulse to be privacy sensitive. Privacy hopefully becomes part of the culture / dna of Facebook, not just because the FCC and the privacy board are looking over your shoulders, so to say :) How do we prevent becoming “walkable surveillance machines”? How can we control the scope and and the issue of consent? These are m…

These are great points. And yes, we'll only get there if it becomes part of the culture, which this is trying to communicate:

https://about.facebook.com/realitylabs/responsible-innovatio...

but I don't expect you to take it at face value yet, we have a long way to go.

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