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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#251

Post by curryst »

hbrav wrote: post #33

I have a question about this, that I've never been able to find a good answer to: what happens if you unilaterally renounce US citizenship? Consider the situation: you're a dual US / Dutch citizen. You want to avoid paying US income tax (or just to avoid filling in a form each year that results in the IRS telling you that your tax bill is $0 because the Netherlands' tax rate is higher). But the State Department's ren…

I don't think the Dutch court has any authority with regards to your US citizenship. It would be a massive breach of national sovereignty if Dutch judges could strip Americans of their citizenship.

They could prevent the Dutch banks transmitting your info, but they can do that regardless of your US citizenship.

The likely outcome is the Dutch court refuses to touch it. Even if you win, I don't think they'd touch your citizenship. They'd just refuse to extradite. They don't have to do what the US wants just because the subject is a US citizen.

The US is going to be infinitely more interested in preventing this than the Dutch are in allowing it though.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#252

Post by voisin »

withinboredom wrote: post #224
sterlind wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems unlikely. the Union didn't recognize the legitimacy of Confederate secession (hence, you know, the war.) the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to rebel states, as an example. they may have had trouble collecting taxes, what with the bullets and all, but amending the tax code doesn't help that.

Someone actually expanded on it down the page as a way to punish deserters.

…which is exactly what the US criticizes Eritrea for doing with its citizenship based taxation! The only other country in the world to do this.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#253

Post by demetrius »

voisin wrote: post #49
rognjen wrote: post #39

What a whiny and melodramatic series of posts from a privileged person giving up one first class citizenship for another out of economics and convenience. Many of my compatriots wait longer, pay less in absolute but more in relative terms and celebrate afterwards. Lots of us would do well to be more grateful.

Is it whiny and melodramatic to want banking and investment services in your country of residence? Is it whiny and melodramatic to want to be able to utilize the retirement savings plans of your country of residence? This isn’t just economics and convenience. It is basic living and Americans abroad are treated like second class citizens relative to those of other countries.

Yes, it's true that all these things are important and there is nothing bad with wanting them.

But lot of people are treated like second class citizens because of their passport in Netherlands (or in America, for that reason). There are a lot of people who get treated worse in their native countries. And her story is nothing out of ordinary.

Sure, it might be hard to get a bank account opened. But on the other hand, she most likely could travel to Netherlands without a visa -- this is very difficult, expensive and time-consuming process for the rest of us. I dare say the paperwork to just to get a work visa for a citizen of most countries in the world is probably greater than her taxes forms (and they also include information about the source of the money, by the way).

Also, where I'm from, lots of young men would love to renounce their nationality just to avoid conscription. We don't have the chance: you need to have another country's citizenship just to renounce yours.

So being in a position when you just can renounce your nationality is a great privilege, and I don't see her acknowledging that.

The whole system with citizenships and visas is severely broken, and she is not the one who is harmed the most. So it's difficult to empathise with someone who has it much easier than we do.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#254

Post by abdabab »

callahad wrote: post #163
nickthemagicman wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it. It appears that she's giving up her citizenship so she doesn't have to use a VPN and has a better selection of banks and to avoid paying $1000 a year? Seems like a citizenship is worth WAY more than that! Something doesn't add up here! Or do people with a lot of money just have a lot less toleranc…

It genuinely is far more invasive and frustrating than you'd expect. I'm a dual US/UK citizen, living in the UK for four years. I have been turned away from local banks for being American. I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad. I cannot reasonably purchase local life insurance policies nor mutual funds without tripping over IRS regulations that strip…

> I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad

Was it Vanguard or Charles Schwab? Did they give a notice before terminating the accounts?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#255

Post by rognjen »

demetrius wrote: post #253
voisin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it whiny and melodramatic to want banking and investment services in your country of residence? Is it whiny and melodramatic to want to be able to utilize the retirement savings plans of your country of residence? This isn’t just economics and convenience. It is basic living and Americans abroad are treated like second class citizens relative to those of other countries.

Yes, it's true that all these things are important and there is nothing bad with wanting them. But lot of people are treated like second class citizens because of their passport in Netherlands (or in America, for that reason). There are a lot of people who get treated worse in their native countries. And her story is nothing out of ordinary. Sure, it might be hard to get a bank account opened. But on the other hand,…

Broadly speaking, citizens of developed countries are unaware of the hurdle visas really are.

I had a friend complain pretty vehemently because their Ukrainian partner had to get a visa to go to a country.

I then had to explain that for most of the rest of the world going to most countries requires a visa, and that my passport at that moment was at an embassy for a visa application.

I also had to point out that it is in fact possible that your visa might get rejected so then all you've booked for your trip is potentially wasted.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#256

Post by pmfgpmfg »

shapefrog wrote: post #233
Hamuko wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that the person in this scenario ever actually lived in the US. You can get an American citizenship without ever actually living there, which will then just make your life harder and if you want to make your life easier, that'll be $2350.

They walk the earth under the protection of the US government. Anywhere anytime they need it, uncle sam will save them, or bomb the shit out of anyone that dares harms them. A very cheap lifetime insurance policy for $2350. Civis romanus sum

If you want protection from the US government while in another country, you have to enter that country on a US passport [1].

[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-tra...

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