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Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

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Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#171

Post by da39a3ee »

dragonwriter wrote: post #156
da39a3ee wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Exactly that's the point. Biology's complicated, of course there are edge cases. That in no way alters the fact that the core concept is that a woman is an XX human. Re infertility, don't be silly. Yes I didn't word it perfectly, I meant "XX, i.e. the sex that bears children in mammals". Do you know what anisogamy means? This stuff wasn't complicated 20 years ago and funnily enough the science hasn't changed.

> I meant "XX, i.e. the sex that bears children in mammals". There are fertile XY females among mammals (including humans.)

Can you post a link to what you’re referring to? I don’t think I was aware that there were fertile XY females in humans.

But in any case, the point is that biology is messy and always has rare exceptions. As an engineer I’m sure you appreciate the value of simple definitions that capture 99% of the diversity accurately.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#172

Post by fallingknife »

dang wrote: post #170
fallingknife wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The debate is that I would like to live, and they do not want me to live This is a lie. Nothing of the sort was said in Chapelle's comedy. > Netflix platformed violence And you are lying again

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review the site guidelines and stick to them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I see nothing in the guidelines against calling out a lie. I don't see how any sensible rules of discussion could possibly ban that. Why are you coming after me instead of the poster I replied to who is making false accusations?

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#173

Post by micromacrofoot »

kcplate wrote: post #169
micromacrofoot wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you think this is “more societal outrage”? it’s just people being upset at dave chapelle

How many news stories have you read about violence and prejudice against black folks in the last 2 weeks compared to stories about this? There have been over 600 murders in Chicago and over 2700 shootings in 2021 alone, with 75% of those folks being black. Yet…it’s a national news story for two weeks that Dave Chappelle told some jokes that offended a tiny percentage of people. That was the point of the whole special…

This is really grasping at straws, there was a massive movement that essentially lasted all last summer to protest against police violence against black people. There have been multiple large demonstrations this year. I've seen nothing even approaching that scale for trans people. Maybe Dave is spending too much time online.

If his stance is "sometimes this (about me) gets more attention than that (about them)" then it's even more absurd. Especially considering that intersectional violence is particularly bad for black trans women.

Roxane Gay had a decent opinion piece in the NY Times if you want an opinion from a black feminist. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/opinion/dave-chappelle-ne...

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#174

Post by hagbard_c »

torben-friis wrote: post #29

As a non American, I must say that I found Chappelle's special to be way too much in the defensive, as if he was preparing for a cancellation that was sure as hell not going to happen. Why would trans people be mad, when he was basically dealing with his duel process on stage about the loss of a trans friend? Then I saw Twitter. Wow. I just don't understand how people can be that mad about something that _they've cle…

> I just don't understand how people can be that mad about something that _they've clearly not watched_. It's beyond me. Perhaps I lack some fundamental cultural context.

There is a very simple explanation for this type of outrage: many religious people get offended when what they consider to be sacred gets criticised or denied. This is even more true for new converts who often fail to see the nuances in their religion and take religious dogma as absolute truth. Religious extremism is incompatible with rational discourse, as is proven time and time again - it does not matter whether the extremists follow a theistic religion like Islam or Christianity or a secular one like "Wokeness", the "new religion of the left" or whatever name you want to give it. Now add this this a faith without atonement or salvation and the seeds have been sown for a life of outrage.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#175

Post by mkr-hn »

fallingknife wrote: post #172
dang wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Please review the site guidelines and stick to them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I see nothing in the guidelines against calling out a lie. I don't see how any sensible rules of discussion could possibly ban that. Why are you coming after me instead of the poster I replied to who is making false accusations?

Not dang, but...

There are two paths you can take when you think someone is off-base:

1: ask questions to try and understand where they're coming from. A lot of times they're entirely on-base and can provide additional context to help understand their view even if you still don't agree. Coming from a different perspective is not the same as lying.

2: attack them, such as by calling them a liar

HN's guidelines favor the former. The latter is great TV, but doesn't lead to good discussion.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#176

Post by AnimalMuppet »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #162
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about "As you would have others do to you, so do to them", no matter who they are?

I try to and I feel a lot of people do But that's not good enough for people bc now you're expected to walk a linguistic minefield due to all the pedantic asshole on the internet who won't listen in good faith, then accuse you of speaking in bad faith A good example is this thread. Chappelle was trying to use anecdotes to meet people halfway, and he did it in his language of comedy. People accuse him of punching down…

Well, for the 80%, a good-faith attempt to treat them well covers a fair number of mistakes. For the 20%... they're not going to be happy, no matter what you do. They won't even be happy with your silence. For them, the rule is more like "So far as it depends on you, live at peace with all."

And I think (or maybe hope) that it's a lot less than 20%. The problem is that much of the internet is a broadcast or oratorical medium, and those seeking offense will find you. They find offense everywhere. It must be a miserable way to live.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#177

Post by kcplate »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #173
kcplate wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many news stories have you read about violence and prejudice against black folks in the last 2 weeks compared to stories about this? There have been over 600 murders in Chicago and over 2700 shootings in 2021 alone, with 75% of those folks being black. Yet…it’s a national news story for two weeks that Dave Chappelle told some jokes that offended a tiny percentage of people. That was the point of the whole special…

This is really grasping at straws, there was a massive movement that essentially lasted all last summer to protest against police violence against black people. There have been multiple large demonstrations this year. I've seen nothing even approaching that scale for trans people. Maybe Dave is spending too much time online. If his stance is "sometimes this (about me) gets more attention than that (about them)" then…

> I've seen nothing even approaching that scale for trans people.

Perhaps that has to do with the fact that there were 44 reported cases of fatal violence against trans people and 9900 against black people in 2020.

Edit: fixed my stat

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#178

Post by fallingknife »

mkr-hn wrote: post #175
fallingknife wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see nothing in the guidelines against calling out a lie. I don't see how any sensible rules of discussion could possibly ban that. Why are you coming after me instead of the poster I replied to who is making false accusations?

Not dang, but... There are two paths you can take when you think someone is off-base: 1: ask questions to try and understand where they're coming from. A lot of times they're entirely on-base and can provide additional context to help understand their view even if you still don't agree. Coming from a different perspective is not the same as lying. 2: attack them, such as by calling them a liar HN's guidelines favor t…

I get that, but there is a line between good faith differences in opinion and a lie. And accusing Netflix of spreading violence is way over that line.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#179

Post by mkr-hn »

fallingknife wrote: post #178
mkr-hn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not dang, but... There are two paths you can take when you think someone is off-base: 1: ask questions to try and understand where they're coming from. A lot of times they're entirely on-base and can provide additional context to help understand their view even if you still don't agree. Coming from a different perspective is not the same as lying. 2: attack them, such as by calling them a liar HN's guidelines favor t…

I get that, but there is a line between good faith differences in opinion and a lie. And accusing Netflix of spreading violence is way over that line.

Not if you understand what they mean by violence. I assume they mean the kind of violence that goes with stochastic terrorism. Dave Chapelle doesn't have to intend for his words to cause harm to cause harm. Netflix doesn't have to intend it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_attacks

You don't have to agree that stochastic terrorism is real, but calling someone a liar because you don't understand the model of violence they're referring to doesn't make them a liar. It just means you lacked context. And now you don't.

Every dude who murders a trans woman bases his fear and rage on the exact same ignorance Netflix spreads through the chain of stand-up shows I did watch that meant I didn't need to bother with this one to know the deal.

Re: Netflix fires organizer of trans employee walkout

#180

Post by fleddr »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #152
fleddr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich has nothing to do with it, this is about the freedom of speech, art and comedy.

none of which are at risk here… the comedian said whatever he wanted, was paid millions for his art which was viewed by millions… this is like the apex of success

You seem really obsessed with money.

This minor insult has led to a disproportionate amount of outrage. Which is a very strong signal to other comedians to only engage in jokes deemed "safe". That's a regression.

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