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Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

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Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a healthy amount of skepticism about Tether in the crypto community. Your cryptofans narrative does not accurately reflect reality.

Isn't the trouble that Tether substantially influences the solvency of all other stabletokens and the value of cryptocurrencies themselves (in relation to X fiat)? For example (admittedly this is probably way off-base here), let's say there were only two stablecoins (USDT and USDC), and only one of which had true 1:1 buyback (USDC) where >=1 entity would exchange one USDC for 1 USD (I know the reality of USDC is mudd…

There are three very interesting threads in your comment, as I see them:

1. Tether influencing solvency of other stablecoins.

2. (Tightly related to point 1) Inflation of Tether as it becomes an intermediary.

3. That it is logically inconsistent to view Tether as a scam while also viewing cryptocurrency as a store of value.

Point 3: There is a difference between a store of value and a store of value that is stable with respect to some specific other value.

Consider Bitcoin and Ethereum. The rules by which these blockchains operate are quite transparent. The software is free (as in freedom). Anybody in the world with the means can run a node and participate in these blockchains. Thousands of people are doing so right now. These currencies are open in a sense that no other currency has been open in the entire history of the human race.

Tether on the other hand is completely opaque about its operations. In fact, the people at Tether actively spread misinformation about how Tether operates. It has repeatedly dodged and attempted to fabricates audits of its reserves.

Given all of this, I do not see any logical inconsistency between thinking of Bitcoin and Ethereum as stores of value which is largely orthogonal to the value of the fiat that you hold while simultaneously thinking of Tether as a scam stablecoin whose value is pegged to that of a fiat currency.

Point 1: I agree with you that the existence of Tether improves the solvency of other stablecoins. It reduces the pressure on anyone backing another stablecoin by offering an alternative means of a holder of that stablecoin to realize the dollar value of their stablecoin holdings (albeit with a slight overhead in transaction costs).

I think this is more significant of a factor for centralized stablecoins like USDC than it is for decentralized stablecoins like DAI, although I suspect the existence of USDT puts less pressure on collateralized DAI positions as well.

This is not a compelling reason to encourage or even tolerate the existence of Tether. A true stable coin would not experience any significant difficulties even if Tether became insolvent. I believe that decentralized stablecoins like DAI would only experience negligible effects from Tether's insolvency.

Point 2: This is a very good point and I don't understand it well enough theoretically to confidently make predictions about how it would play out on the market.

My intuition tells me that the most powerful factor against inflating prices of USDC in your scenario is that Coinbase (and the USDC consortium) will stick to their position and always offer $1 in exchange for 1 USDC.

The other factor is that there are many more legitimate stablecoins that could partly fill in the vacuum that Tether would create if it imploded. So not all attention would be focused on USDC. If people really needed a stablecoin, then they would not want to purchase an asset whose value was increasing.

There are a lot of parameters involved, though, and I find this very hard to reason about. Would love any input here.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that just a pump and dump?

No. "Pump[ing]" by buying something is entirely legal. And the price should come down just as much when you are trying to cash in, so the mechanism doesn't really work, or anyone with enough money could just do it repeatedly using whatever traded asset they want. "Pump and dump" refers to promoting some investment by other means, usually spreading some false news.

> "Pump[ing]" by buying something is entirely legal.

I beg to differ. The Securities and Exchanges Act of 1934 criminalizes all sorts of things that are deemed market manipulation, and inflating the price of a security by false trading, i.e. selling it to yourself or a conspirator, is one of the very things it was created to prohibit.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the Bank of England even used to offer account services to employees after it was nationalized. Which would be scandalous if we found it in some dubious ex-Soviet republic today, albeit there maybe they're lending the Bank's President $10M with no real security and the Bank of England was offering employees mortgages and similar modest run-of-the-mill secured loans. The UK owns a whole bunch of banks and entiti…

See also: Bank of America But they can't issue banknotes, unlike BoS and RBoS.

To be fair, unlike Tether, the Bank of Scotland actually does hold actual cash worth the same as the notes they issue.

Also, although these banks have permission to issue notes (whereas if you went around issuing "bank notes" you'd likely get arrested) the notes aren't necessarily worth anything except in the sense that you can assume the Banks will give you Bank of England notes for them if it came to it since they're required to hold those.

They aren't legal tender (Scotland doesn't really bother having legal tender laws anyway) and retailers can choose not to accept them if they want. You won't have a problem exchanging them for tourist stuff in Edinburgh or buying a fish supper in Dundee, but good luck getting some random corner store owner down South in Cornwall or Essex to accept them - even though these notes are in some sense worth the same as Bank of England notes, there is no law requiring retailers to accept any notes and so they might just tell you to fuck off with your weird-looking money.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#254
post #244
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or those without decent banking access

I don't know that one can use crypto without a bank account. Is there a black market where you can buy/sell crypto with/for cash?

In several African countries people use their phone credit as a currency to barter and there are trials to use crypto instead with on/off cash ramps in the same way as the phone credit works but with the additional benefit of things like financial records to start building credit scores

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#255
post #254
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that one can use crypto without a bank account. Is there a black market where you can buy/sell crypto with/for cash?

In several African countries people use their phone credit as a currency to barter and there are trials to use crypto instead with on/off cash ramps in the same way as the phone credit works but with the additional benefit of things like financial records to start building credit scores

Can you provide a link? None of this makes any sense. Why would anybody buy phone credit and then use that to barter instead of just buying whatever they need directly? How do you build a credit score from a record of transactions? Why do Africans that don't have access to banking are so worried about building a credit score? So many questions...

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#256
post #255
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In several African countries people use their phone credit as a currency to barter and there are trials to use crypto instead with on/off cash ramps in the same way as the phone credit works but with the additional benefit of things like financial records to start building credit scores

Can you provide a link? None of this makes any sense. Why would anybody buy phone credit and then use that to barter instead of just buying whatever they need directly? How do you build a credit score from a record of transactions? Why do Africans that don't have access to banking are so worried about building a credit score? So many questions...

I can give a more complete answer later but here’s a link that looks relevant https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/finance-and-e...

Credit scores help introduce micro loans which help with social mobility and is key to bringing communities out of poverty

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lending rates are higher because lenders are paid a premium for owning a potentially worthless (USDT denominated) credit. The idiom that comes to mind is "picking up pennies in front of a steamroller".

Basic question: why doesn't this affect the currency pair exchange rate? If lending rates reflect the (realistic!) idea that holding 1 USDT is less valuable than holding 1 USD, how does 1 USDT trade at par?

Manipulation by exchanges

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#258
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steel mill was probably going to want dollars instead of Bitcoin regardless, so the only difference is that they do the trade for dollars on a black market exchange. This is likely to get folded into the money laundering process anyway -- the Bitcoin goes to unspecified offshore location to get turned into dollars that come back as a clean payment for "consulting services" or what have you. There is no need for a…

Do you expect the guy laundering money to accept bitcoins without charging extra? Because if the guy selling bitcoins takes ~10% from the AK-47 buyer and the guy laundering money also takes his ~10% cut for using bitcoins on top of his X% cut for laundering money, suddenly it’s starting to look really unappealing. The real appeal of bitcoin for illegal purposes is it’s effectively a poor but really cheap way to laund…

> Do you expect the guy laundering money to accept bitcoins without charging extra?

That's the entire purpose of using them.

Someone who has a million dollars in physical cash either needs to get someone local to launder it, which might be hard to find or require paying them a thick margin, or they have to find a way to ship a huge amount of physical cash to the place it's being laundered and risk it being seized at border crossings etc.

Someone who has a million dollars in Bitcoin can buy money laundering as a service over the internet from the lowest bidder who has a good reputation. The Bitcoin gets transferred to some place with favorable banking rules, gets liquidated there where it's either not illegal or the local authorities are corrupt, and it comes back as dollars. Since it's possible to do it over the internet, you have competition from all over the world including some favorable jurisdictions, so the margins get smaller than they would be if you had to find someone locally.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#259
post #4

I don't understand why this is something they can settle rather than something that gets them completely shut down.

I agree completely, the founders should be criminally prosecuted and the fines should be multiple times all time profits from the illicit activity.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#260
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, they lied, and people could have been harmed if there were a “bank run” on Tether. But in practice there was not and nobody suffered any damage, zero, nada, nicht. While big banks got fined for actually taking money illegally out of people’s pockets and nobody said let’s shut them down

> But in practice there was not and nobody suffered any damage, zero, nada, nicht. So I guess its ok. Might as well pack it up and let them carry on with manipulation, lying and profiting. I don't get your rationale whatsoever.

I don't see where the GP poster wrote anything like "I guess its ok. Might as well pack it up and let them carry on with manipulation, lying and profiting." - could you quote the relevant passage? Did they edit their comment?
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