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Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

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Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#191
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of Tether in circulation has increased over 150-fold since then, so presumably their reserves have increased as well. They just got punished for not having actual reserves match their circulation. What basis is there to presume that their reserve is matching their circulation now?

https://tether.to/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/tether_assuranc... This all boils down to two questions in my mind: 1) Do you trust the unsigned report from the auditor, who appears to be a fairly unknown entity? 2) Do you trust the asserted quality of the commercial paper, which makes up 50% of the putative reserves?

This is not an audit. That's why it says "Accountant's Report". Because a real accountancy firm/auditor would risk their ability to practice by calling it something it's not.

The last time Tether claimed to have something that was an "actual" audit, they claimed they couldn't release it to the public because ...

"... it is in Mandarin".

Here's the big problem with this attestation:

> Our opinion is limited solely to the CRR and the corresponding consolidated total assets and consolidated total liabilities as of 30 June 2021, at 11:59 PM UTC. Activity prior to and after this time and date was not considered when testing the balances and information described above.

They're very, and repeatedly clear that this is a snapshot. There is nothing stopping Tether taking a 72 hour loan before this attestation and then closing that loan after it.

They claim $6B in cash holdings, in an undisclosed bank, presumably Deltec, whose "deputy CEO" demonstrated in an interview (among other problems) that he did not know the names of the two banking licenses available to banks in that country, and he wasn't sure which one they had.

You can't get a mortgage with a simple attestation of funds - why should it be okay for these guys?

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this pretty much the description of every company? For the most part, sure. But that's the parent's point, I think. Central banks are not companies, they are part of the public financial infrastructure of a nation (or, in the EU case, group of nations).

> Central banks are not companies Actually... it's complicated. The Bank of England, for example, was nationalized only in 1946, and it remains technically a company which is owned by the state, not actually part of the government. In the US, the Fed is... well, it's not a company, but it's also not not a company... or group of companies... See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Bank

Yeah, the Bank of England even used to offer account services to employees after it was nationalized. Which would be scandalous if we found it in some dubious ex-Soviet republic today, albeit there maybe they're lending the Bank's President $10M with no real security and the Bank of England was offering employees mortgages and similar modest run-of-the-mill secured loans.

The UK owns a whole bunch of banks and entities that would need a banking license if they weren't owned by the government, of which only the Bank of England acts as a central bank, but there are also a bunch of commercial banks in (or at least operating in) the UK that are named after parts of the UK even though they're not owned by the government, including the Bank of Scotland.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#193
post #20
post #4

I don't understand why this is something they can settle rather than something that gets them completely shut down.

I'm more surprised that anyone still holds Tether, unless they're stuck with it. The company has been caught in lies several times before, it's not as if a $41M fine will turn them honest.

I haven't looked into it, but it looks like they lied about being backed by cash (or at least, somehow implied it).

Now they claim to be backed by cash and cash equivalents, namely a lot of "commercial paper" (short term debt obligations), which is widely believed to be in Chinese markets.

For some reason though, they won't reveal exactly what it is they hold. It could be that they think the market will not react kindly to the kind of assets they hold, or that they entered some kind of weird agreement no to reveal them.

I highly doubt they're not backed by assets whose face value adds up to the total UST distribution, because multiple auditors have said they were fully backed. But it is possibly that some of these assets are junk that won't (or have a high risk not to) redeem at face value.

Even in very bad scenarios, UST could fall to 0.8$ if 20% of Tether's asset default (and they burned through profits). Problematic but not quite such as a risk as it going to zero, which is why people still hold it.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks do not have enough cash on hand to meet their liabilities (deposits), but they are for the most part net-positive over all assets and liabilities. They aren't just burning depositor's money, they're putting it into mortgages and riskier loans. So while they cannot afford a quick payout above 10% of total deposits, the assets are there in the form of loans and securities.

The effect is the same: people want to cash out and they can't. The solution is the same: bail out the banks in order to avoid even worse economic impact. I don't see why banks deserve this royal treatment while Tether doesn't. Whether Tether was or wasn't responsible with the money is another matter entirely. I fully support any efforts to hold them accountable for their actions there.

Banks don't get that special treatment for free. They pay for insurance and comply with regulations. Some of those regulations exist to reduce the risks associated with FDIC insurance, and a lot of those regulations exist to force banks to serve important social functions.

You can fault banking regulation for not being stringent enough, and I won't argue with you. But I'll never understand how "fuck banks getting special treatment" should ever translate into "therefore wildcat banks are a GREAT idea, right?"

Or, to put it another way: I don't want to bail out the big banks; why in fuck's sake would I want to bail out Tether speculators?

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#195
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more surprised that anyone still holds Tether, unless they're stuck with it. The company has been caught in lies several times before, it's not as if a $41M fine will turn them honest.

I haven't looked into it, but it looks like they lied about being backed by cash (or at least, somehow implied it). Now they claim to be backed by cash and cash equivalents, namely a lot of "commercial paper" (short term debt obligations), which is widely believed to be in Chinese markets. For some reason though, they won't reveal exactly what it is they hold. It could be that they think the market will not react kin…

The problem is worse than that. They also use their BTC holdings as part of their assets they hold, which allows them to pump the BTC/USDT rate (print USDT, use it to buy BTC, see prices of BTC going up because of artificial demand, say "BTC is up, our holdings have increased in value and we can print more", rinse and repeat.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, no such right is necessarily guaranteed by societies. For example, during much of the 1900s you were required to sell gold to the US government for USD rather than keep it under your mattress, and if you refused they had the right to seize it with force. For another example, negative savings interest rates in certain European countries.

> during much of the 1900s you were required to sell gold to the US government for USD rather than keep it under your mattress, and if you refused they had the right to seize it with force Many considered this a violation of their rights. Justly so. I would say that "no such right is necessarily guaranteed" is only true in the sense that no rights at all are necessarily guaranteed.

That's nice, but regardless, the law stood for forty years, even surviving the Supreme Court^.

Society abrogates individual rights by its very existence, and anarchic utopias that exclude all abrogation tend to fail comically^^ and/or catastrophically^^^. It turns out that compromise is a necessary factor of coexistence with other human beings, especially those we disagree with. If you don't feel that your rights are being abrogated by society in some regard, then you either are unfamiliar with the unconscious rights we all take for granted, and/or your circumstances align with the corruption that rich and well-connected people benefit from.

In the US, the Constitution guarantees you specific and inalienable rights, and lays out clear terms that the government is not permitted to violate without consequence. While corruption exists, and no constitution is ever written or enforced perfectly, your declaration that no rights are guaranteed is incorrect for US citizens in the US. Other countries have similar guarantees of rights, such as the EU and GDPR, not to mention many older ones as well, so that statement is incorrect in various ways for those as well. Societies vary wildly in who is granted rights and what rights those are and when they may be abrogated without consequence. Corruption is endemic to virtually all modern societies, small and large. Regardless, rights are granted in most of them.

I respect those that feel that their rights are violated by the laws of the society they are members of, but that is no excuse to declare provably false statements ("no rights at all") as if they're facts. You'll need to invest more effort in your arguments to make headway with that declaration, or define what "rights" means to you that lets you declare that you have none, or declare that the society you are a member of does not guarantee you personally any rights whatsoever.

^ For example: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/294/330

^^ For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28441794

^^^ A popular counterexample is an Icelandic system of government from a thousand years ago, frequently held up as an example of libertarian utopia that lasted for centuries. However, the governmental laws that implemented the godord specifically abrogated the rights of the citizens of Iceland, binding them without individual consent to the societal system of godords, laws, courts, judgments, and enforcements. If you ignored the judgment of the courts, you were stripped of your societal right to live; anyone could kill you without being punished for doing so. Ironically, this meant that in this ancient system, societal outlaws were truly freed from all abrogations of their rights, as they were cast out from society as a whole. However, being marked for murder by those who do accept societal abrogations tends to diminish the enjoyment somewhat.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't looked into it, but it looks like they lied about being backed by cash (or at least, somehow implied it). Now they claim to be backed by cash and cash equivalents, namely a lot of "commercial paper" (short term debt obligations), which is widely believed to be in Chinese markets. For some reason though, they won't reveal exactly what it is they hold. It could be that they think the market will not react kin…

The problem is worse than that. They also use their BTC holdings as part of their assets they hold, which allows them to pump the BTC/USDT rate (print USDT, use it to buy BTC, see prices of BTC going up because of artificial demand, say "BTC is up, our holdings have increased in value and we can print more", rinse and repeat.

Isn't that just a pump and dump?

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#198
post #23

The CFTC claims to be helping end-customers by doing this kind of thing, but it is really taking money that could have been distributed off the table. Fining (and perhaps requiring the dismissal of) Tether's corporate officers would likely instill more discipline, but fining the company just hurts the customer.

> perhaps requiring the dismissal of) Tether's corporate officers

That's okay, they'll just go to work for Bitfinex. Remember when the two claimed they were independent? And then Bitfinex loaned Tether $800M, and we'll call the two people who signed the loan contract for Bitfinex "Corporate Officer A" and "Corporate Officer B". Meanwhile, on the other side of the contract, we'll call the people who signed on behalf of Tether uhh... "Corporate Officer A" and "Corporate Officer B".

Or they'll go work for Deltec. Whose Deputy CEO will give interviews saying that "they can see the flow of all the Tether, because we are in the system and can see every transaction". Another legit, arms-length financial relationship, evidently...

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#199
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more surprised that anyone still holds Tether, unless they're stuck with it. The company has been caught in lies several times before, it's not as if a $41M fine will turn them honest.

I haven't looked into it, but it looks like they lied about being backed by cash (or at least, somehow implied it). Now they claim to be backed by cash and cash equivalents, namely a lot of "commercial paper" (short term debt obligations), which is widely believed to be in Chinese markets. For some reason though, they won't reveal exactly what it is they hold. It could be that they think the market will not react kin…

No auditor audited tether.

Tether got few attestations from an unknown company a few times, but they have also been caught red handed by NYAG for moving funds a day before attestation snapshot is taken, and moved it the day after.

For the uninitiated, attestation verifies a single point in time, so it's easy to game it. And this is something tether has done.

Re: Tether Fined $41M for Lying About Reserves

#200
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, no such right is necessarily guaranteed by societies. For example, during much of the 1900s you were required to sell gold to the US government for USD rather than keep it under your mattress, and if you refused they had the right to seize it with force. For another example, negative savings interest rates in certain European countries.

And yet, I still hold those other things. Many people told that society where to shove it when they came to repossess their assets by force. If you are trying to explain why I owe some debt to society to support their currency you aren't making a very convincing argument.

It's up to you how to interpret the law, and it's up to the justice system and/or law enforcement and/or military to decide to punish you if it disagrees with your interpretation of the rules of society. I am not you, I am not your lawyer (this is not legal advice), and I am not a member of a societal authority such as those above; therefore, I have no viewpoint on whether you specifically owe some debt to society or not. You'll need to resolve that yourself or with the cooperation of your lawyer.
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