Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#121

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:35 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

I agree with firing for negative public comments, but firing for negative internal comments is pretty stifling - unless those negative comments are also abusive of course.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#122

Post by andrewjf » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #87

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #3

Not a good look for Apple. I understand Apple wanting to maintain their culture of secrecy about their products but their PR and HR people should know that the culture certainly does not have to extend to internal personnel issues. Why should we trust them when they do stuff like this? Even if she was acting improperly w.r.t. company proprietary information I'd have thought that competent PR folk would know to never…

> Even if she was acting improperly w.r.t. company proprietary information I'd have thought that competent PR folk would know to never fire someone in a position like this because there's no way the company can look good in the aftermath. This is something I do wonder about. We've seen a fair number of cases recently of tech companies firing people who've publicly agitated for changes in the company culture and alway…

Not in the immediate news cycle, sure. But overall, it needs to be done.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#123

Post by pgeorgi » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #112

krrrh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality most unions dominate their industry to the point of monopoly.

In reality there are almost no unions operating in tech spaces. The world is our oyster, and the only way to let huge unions into the industry is by voting them in. It's a space ripe for disruption.

> It's a space ripe for disruption.

I want to add that disruption is what huge unions excel at, so if anybody wants to keep them out of tech, the best approach might be to fill the space they'd otherwise sweep into unchallenged with a compelling organization.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#124

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #112

krrrh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality most unions dominate their industry to the point of monopoly.

In reality there are almost no unions operating in tech spaces. The world is our oyster, and the only way to let huge unions into the industry is by voting them in. It's a space ripe for disruption.

[deleted]

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#125

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:39 AM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #123

klyrs wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality there are almost no unions operating in tech spaces. The world is our oyster, and the only way to let huge unions into the industry is by voting them in. It's a space ripe for disruption.

> It's a space ripe for disruption. I want to add that disruption is what huge unions excel at, so if anybody wants to keep them out of tech, the best approach might be to fill the space they'd otherwise sweep into unchallenged with a compelling organization.

Always insane to see tech workers claim that labor unions are inherently flawed and unable to innovate upon, when so much of Silicon Valley's own rhetoric is about disrupting everything else under the sun.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#126

Post by heavyset_go » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:41 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

> I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that.

In the US, people have protected rights to discuss and push for changes in their working conditions, and to organize, thanks to the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#127

Post by exBarrelSpoiler » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #110

discordance wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ungodly money. Ungodly benefits. Working interesting problems everyday. Changing the world. Impacting millions of lives. The best of some of the best teams. The pay is good, but the rest of it is not as good as you make it out to be. There are exceptions, but for the most part projects, teams and impact are usually pretty low.

> There are expectations Sounds miserable! In all seriousness, it’s awesome and better than most.

Apple has a toxic side covered up by silence that is unique among most tech companies.

And you want to talk about ungodly money and ungodly benefits, yet there are suicides at Facebook and Amazon. Not to mention in investment banking. All of these things come at a cost.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#128

Post by poisonborz » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #92

prepend wrote: post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

I wish I could go back in time and tell a younger version of myself the steps needed to work at a FAANG. I unfortunately never had the right guidance to get there and hopefully my kids one day will. I can’t complain as things worked out —- but still. I see these employee issues pop up from time to time and I guess I just don’t understand it. I’m not trying to be cruel to the people speaking out. Just I truly don’t un…

> Changing the world. Impacting millions of lives.

This sentence misses "for the better". Good payment and benefits are easy to achieve as an engineer, good problems/tech is also not hard if you look enough. Sorry if you had bad experiences, but it's not like there is a cruel world out there outside of FAANG, as your comment makes it seem. They may have more to give due to sheer scale, but after a limit, good goals are equally if not more important.

And it's at least doubious that the monopolistic, walled garden data-harvesting world that they build can provide those.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#129

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #3

Not a good look for Apple. I understand Apple wanting to maintain their culture of secrecy about their products but their PR and HR people should know that the culture certainly does not have to extend to internal personnel issues. Why should we trust them when they do stuff like this? Even if she was acting improperly w.r.t. company proprietary information I'd have thought that competent PR folk would know to never…

I think Apple knows you're not going out and buying an Android device over this.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#130

Post by Apocryphon » Sat, Oct 16, 2021, 5:46 AM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #129

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #3

Not a good look for Apple. I understand Apple wanting to maintain their culture of secrecy about their products but their PR and HR people should know that the culture certainly does not have to extend to internal personnel issues. Why should we trust them when they do stuff like this? Even if she was acting improperly w.r.t. company proprietary information I'd have thought that competent PR folk would know to never…

I think Apple knows you're not going out and buying an Android device over this.

Maybe we're getting closer to people buying Linux devices.