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Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

medicine.wustl.edu

171–180 of 193 posts

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#171

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In addition, intramuscular vaccines only provide blood/serum antibodies, while nasal infection also provides nasal/mucosal antibodies. Those who recover from Covid infection gain sterilizing immunity (less than 1% will be reinfected) that stops future infections in the upper respiratory tract. That's why the CDC website says Covid (leaky, non-sterilizing) vaccines only provide protection (in blood) against serious il…

I think these things are hard to be sure about, but there still is good evidence that covid vaccines are sterilizing in a lot of cases. The rate of infection is still lower for vaccinated people right when controlling for other demographics?

COVID-19 vaccines aren't sterilizing to any meaningful extent. They provide only limited and temporary protection against infection. The real benefit is in protection against severe symptoms.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#172
post #91

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I have no opinion whatsoever regarding whether or not ivermectin's purported mechanism of action against COVID is valid. However, this: > It also just isn’t the sort of thing there would be incentive to lie about is not true. There are two incentives to lie about this, if you are in any way associated with drug or vaccine manufacturers. 1.) Ivermectin is out of patent and dirt cheap; basically not profitable at all 2…

> 2.) Emergency use authorization for the vaccines relied on there being no available alternative treatment That's simply so factually wrong it's tough to take it as serious. having a treatment that might lessen the severity of some percentage of the people that get covid has absolutely nothing to do with a prophylactic EUA for a vaccine that is wildly efficacious against mild and severe covid cases and stop you from…

One of the reasons it got looked at was due to a scabies outbreak at Valley View Nursing Home in Toronto that coincidentally had a Covid outbreak at the same time in early 2020. Oddly enough, the residents that had scabies did better than the residents that didn't.

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#173

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A limiting factor for the effectiveness of anti-virals for Covid is time. Maximum viral load happens often happens before any symptoms are present, and the most severe diseases occurs weeks after infection as a result of the bodies inflammatory response instead of the virus itself. This means that by the time you know that a patient will have severe Covid-19, it is likely too late for any treatment that is based on i…

According to the founders of Ridgeback, Molnupiravir is being tested prophylacticly. They suggested that hopefully by sometime next year, if someone you’ve been in within close contact tests positive, you get on the cocktail of Molnupiravir + the upcoming Pfizer antiviral.

Molnupiravir is not a benign medication. There are serious concerns about mutagenic risks. Until more long-term safety studies are completed it certainly shouldn't be prescribed as a routine prophylactic for most patients who are at low risk anyway.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/molnupiravir-vs-co...

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#174

I was reading that the flue shot also works against covid according to a study. The world will learn to live with covid. I'm more worried about the authoritarians taking advantage of the current crisis.

I remember reading in 2020 that those that have received a TB vaccine had better results with Covid. I never did find out if there was a co confounding variable that explains it. (I wouldn't be surprised if it does.)

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#175

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I call bullshit. Antibodies wane but the memory cell response is robust and holds up over what looks to be a pretty long period (studied intensively for 6 months but with no sign of decline). Here's a new paper that shows that in detail (paper itself is dense but Twitter thread is fairly accessible): https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711946010710023 By basically all measures, these vaccines work better than…

Great link, summarizing recent research showing strong post-vaccination long-term B cell response. Then Twitter surfaces a recent breakthrough infection study among 620k US veterans in the "More Tweets" section: https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1448815262522773520 After six months from initial vaccination (Mar-Aug) the J&J vaccine appears to have zero (!) VE against infection. Pfizer is holding at a modest 53% ag…

COVID-19 vaccines aren't sterilizing to any meaningful extent. They provide only limited and temporary protection against infection. The real benefit is in protection against severe symptoms.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#176

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I was sort of intentionally abusing the term, though I was trying to be clear that I was trying include explicitly people with a number of viral particles low enough to not be infected. My understanding is that a single covid virus infecting a cell won't result in a positive covid test and probably won't make someone sick especially if they're vaccinated. More broadly the point I'm trying to make is that vaccination…

> phrases like vaccinated people have similar viral loads to unvaccinated individual obscures that point and helps lead people to think vaccines are useless I neither stated nor implied any such thing and these sorts of PSAs are really not constructive. HN I believe has a generally well-educated and technical audience that is capable of having intelligent, nuanced conversation about scientific research. In fact, with…

Maybe I should have been more concrete earlier. I certainly didn't mean to obscure my meaning or make you feel attacked. I did start out in my first reply with a mistaken understanding of the science. I did edit my post to reflect that because I didn't want to lead people astray and maybe I should have even more forcefully. But, I do think while knowing the nuance is important, It is easy to lose track of just now effective vaccines seem to be. They do for example dramatically reduce the odds that I'm currently shedding virus which is most of what I worry about. And statements like viral load being the same really do seem confusing. I also think even on here the terms are confusing. Viral load for example is only for people who are infected, but what exactly does it mean to even be infected. Certainly just having a virus land in say your nose isn't enough. I think most people wouldn't even count a few cells being infected as truly infected. Certainly a test wouldn't right? So I think talking about viral load as a quantity for people who aren't "infected" is sort of reasonable especially when "infected" is being defined essentially in terms of virus concentration. But idk much, my only bio credential is 1 year of undergraduate course work

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#177
post #165

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Many countries are using ivermectin...Mexico, India, it's even being prescribed in the US and UK. What it is missing is quality studies, but there are millions of prescriptions being written based off of clinical discretion. So yes, there are more countries, and many ARE accepting ivermectin for treating COVID. And again, I don't know or care if it works, I'm vaccinated and wouldn't take it, nor am I a conspiracy the…

> What it is missing is quality studies Um, exactly? We have millions of scrips issued and still nobody can produce data. Now, what we can posit is that there is a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the fact that ivermectin is effective OR we can posit that ivermectin doesn't actually work very well for Covid. The problem with anecdotal medical treatments is that the human organism is highly variable. Just about any di…

I'm not saying "I'm just a skeptic." People keep putting words in my mouth or arguing against points that I didn't make.

My original argument was against the poster who said that there was no reason to lie about the utility of ivermectin. I said that there was.

In arguing against points that I didn't make, though, you keep making points that I still disagree with. Such as this false dichotomy you keep laying out:

> Now, what we can posit is that there is a worldwide conspiracy to suppress the fact that ivermectin is effective OR we can posit that ivermectin doesn't actually work very well for Covid.

Those aren't the only two options. A third option is that ivermectin does actually have some mechanism of action that has some utility in treating COVID, and that the informal clinical data which continues its usage is because of that. You're acting as if there are formal studies which indicate that it has no utility, but all of the data debunking the utility of ivermectin instead suggests that there is simply not a rigorous study formally demonstrating the utility.

For the third or fourth time, I'm not even saying that I believe that it does have utility. I actually don't care about ivermectin.

> If we're trading on anecdotes, then I'll say that ivermectin doesn't work

I don't remember laying out an anecdote saying that ivermectin does work. An argument was put forth saying that if ivermectin did work, there would be scientists and doctors all over the world studying and using it. I said that there were scientists and doctors all over the world studying and using it. I think it's entirely possible it does nothing and those things could still be true. You're the only one between us who is actually making a claim about the utility of the drug.

> This is why you don't believe claims without data.

I don't know what claim I'm purported to be believing.

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#178

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Not anymore. Because it turns out mRNA vaccination efficacy drops off after 6-9 months, which is why they're rolling out booster shots in my country. I fear that soon "fully vaccinated" will mean one has had a series of 4 shots by that point. (And if you don't like that, we're taking away your job).

Well if you can't be trusted to not infect the people around you, yeah get the hell out. Its literally the only pragmatic way to deal with it.

Bad faith argument here. The current vaccines are not like the MMR vaccine, for example. Vaccinated people can still contract and spread coronaviruses. So, a vaccine subscription where everyone needs shots every 6-12 months is not the _only_ pragmatic way to deal with it; it's just the option that's being shoved down all Americans' throats right now, ostensibly for the benefit of major pharma companies and other more nefarious reasons.

SARS-CoV-2 is clearly not a death sentence, because more than 99% survive if they contract it. And there is a factor of natural immunity, which the US government is oddly trying to smokescreen/astroturf into "get vaccinated anyway".

I am not "anti-vaccination". I had my shots. I am simply against government coercion to push not the best, but the most profitable solutions.

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we had to change the definition of “working vaccine” to fit these new therapies. Traditionally a vaccine has to keep efficacy for a year. We haven’t got a year of data but the efficacy has dropped significantly

I call bullshit. Antibodies wane but the memory cell response is robust and holds up over what looks to be a pretty long period (studied intensively for 6 months but with no sign of decline). Here's a new paper that shows that in detail (paper itself is dense but Twitter thread is fairly accessible): https://twitter.com/rishirajgoel/status/1448711946010710023 By basically all measures, these vaccines work better than…

I call bullshit. Your source doesn’t address the efficacy decrease at all.

Yes, there are lasting changes from the vaccine, no that doesn’t indicate much about level of protection.

I definitely would never get a flu shot with its ridiculous efficacy numbers. If you forced me to get it to remain a part of society it would require my resistance by any means.

If you didn’t respond like an asshole id give you a couple sources. But, bullshit and all.

Re: Antiviral compound blocks SARS-CoV-2 from entering cells

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They increase the risk of asymptomatic transmission, since the person would otherwise self-isolate. This is conjecture. It's a hypothetical effect to take into consideration, but it's certainly not borne out in data that the vaccines increase asymptomatic transmission, much less for this reason.

Let's look at the CDC website, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac... > Based on evolving evidence, CDC recommends fully vaccinated people get tested 5-7 days after close contact with a person with suspected or confirmed COVID-19. For many people, this description could apply to daily activity, e.g. riding on public transit. So the CDC is recommended regular testing of vaccinated people. Sinc…

None of this indicates the vaccines increase asymptomatic transmission. Yes, breakthrough cases can still transmit. Keyword can.
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