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Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

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Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#71

Post by pstuart »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #61
devwastaken wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are okay with that because they're in a position to not have to care. Perhaps apple is correct in that this was because of deleting things they were not supposed to - but individuals advocating for a culture of "apple can do whatever because it's a company" is nodding along to union busting talking points. Tech sector has been very fortunate in the past to not have to unionize, but now as the workforce grows e…

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

That could be interpreted as "I've got mine, Jack. Why should I give a fuck about anybody else?"

This raises the question: if you only care about yourself, why should we care about you?

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#72

Post by speedybird »

angry_octet wrote: post #34
speedybird wrote: post #9

How many people are involved in this AppleToo thing? It's hard for me to get a handle on just how significant any of this is in the scope of the whole corporation. I clicked through a few links in the article and see various numbers, 15 people, 200 people, 500 'instances'.

Only those with the most secure job prospects would take the risk to report, so you have to estimate the denominator -- what proportion of the boldest and most privileged employees report, and what can we infer about the wider company from this?

The denominator is easy, wikipedia tells me that is 147,000 (2020.) I'm wonder what the numerator is.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#73

Post by objclxt »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #61
devwastaken wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are okay with that because they're in a position to not have to care. Perhaps apple is correct in that this was because of deleting things they were not supposed to - but individuals advocating for a culture of "apple can do whatever because it's a company" is nodding along to union busting talking points. Tech sector has been very fortunate in the past to not have to unionize, but now as the workforce grows e…

If I am in top 1% worker, and if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more, why should I not "nodding along on union busting talking points"? I like my very very large paycheck.

> if union is generally flatten the salaries to make me receive less for others more

Who says that’s what will happen? Tom Cruise is a member of SAG, do you think he gets paid SAG union rates?

Union busters in tech have done a fantastic job of convincing engineers that all unions are blue-collar. Which is funny, because you only have to look to Hollywood to see unions like SAG, the DGA, and the WGA which exist to protect all workers from exploitation and not cap compensation at all.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#74

Post by muzz »

vmception wrote: post #67

> Janneke Parrish was accused of deleting files that reportedly included the apps Robinhood, Pokemon GO, and Google Drive, and by doing so, impeding an investigation. Because what they found (most likely Gdrive) would have also gotten Janneke embarrassed, fired, and/or subject to criminal sanctions lol. Now instead Janneke gets to make Apple look like the unilateral aggressor, at least temporarily. It was the best ch…

Why would they have access to the files in the cloud drive?

She could log out of her Google account remotely without ever touching that phone.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#75

Post by chipotle_coyote »

techrat wrote: post #35
analognoise wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bruh we bag on Apple constantly about Right to Repair, their app store monopoly, and destroyed them over their phone scanning shit. We regularly BEAT on Apple. Obviously the app we all noticed was...Google Drive in that list! /Edited: I forgot, we also bag on them constantly about WFH, and their piss poor record with bug bounties. There are probably some I'm forgetting.

> We regularly BEAT on Apple. From my direct experience, anyone who speaks out against Apple's restrictive, walled garden approach and anti consumer practices gets downvoted hard and mass-flagged 'round these parts.

My direct experience is that there is a lot of skepticism about Apple on HN, much of it warranted, some of it (in my opinion, obviously) careening into unwarranted cynicism. But my observation is that comments critical of Apple that are most likely to get downvoted are ones with a clear subtext of "anyone who uses Apple products is an idiotic corporate shill who doesn't know anything about technology and it is my solemn duty to preach the anti-Apple gospel." If you come in with a chip on your shoulder, people will be inclined to knock it off.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#76

Post by ALittleLight »

lowkey_ wrote: post #8
d3nj4l wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not immaterial, and apple is crazy for firing her for deleting Pokemon go, if that is the actual reason and she didn't delete any actual data.

That's just there for the sympathetic headlines — she deleted Google Drive as well, and we can all easily imagine what that suggests. I think a good rule as an employee is "if instructed to hand over your phone as part of an investigation, don't delete stuff before doing so."

I would just add "without expecting to get fired" to that rule. I'd delete private or incriminating things regardless of what the company told me.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#77

Post by croes »

prepend wrote: post #14

I guess I’m just old school but I come from a time when I’d be fired for any negative public or even internal comments. And I’m ok with that. I’d rather just quit than try to change a company this way. Or I’d just work into leadership and make executive decisions. Or I’d start a company and do it my way. I just don’t see leadership being convinced by me complaining on Twitter or starting an internal complaint slack c…

> if you delete things off company equipment when you’ve been directed not to do that.

That's just Apple's claim. And you don't seem to have noticed that employees also have rights. It's up to you if you willing to give up yours, but don't devalue others who don't stand idly by and watch giant corporations do whatever they want.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#78

Post by angry_octet »

speedybird wrote: post #72
angry_octet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only those with the most secure job prospects would take the risk to report, so you have to estimate the denominator -- what proportion of the boldest and most privileged employees report, and what can we infer about the wider company from this?

The denominator is easy, wikipedia tells me that is 147,000 (2020.) I'm wonder what the numerator is.

No that's wrong, because most of those people don't have the security to risk making a report.

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#79

Post by muzz »

paganel wrote: post #70
lowkey_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just there for the sympathetic headlines — she deleted Google Drive as well, and we can all easily imagine what that suggests. I think a good rule as an employee is "if instructed to hand over your phone as part of an investigation, don't delete stuff before doing so."

> don't delete stuff before doing so. I would certainly delete personal information if present on said phone, don't want some other corporate freaks to go through my stuff. Fuck it, I would have done it if instead of Apple it had been the Securitate (I'm from Romania, grew up as a kid in the '80s), and come to think of it this advice of "obey your corporate masterlords" is kind of depressing in itself. We don't have…

Is logging out of those apps not sufficient enough?

Re: Apple fires leader of AppleToo movement

#80

Post by angry_octet »

da_big_ghey wrote: post #49
angry_octet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a big cultural disconnect. What you interpret as "bad mouthing" is actually an indication of corporate health, a mechanism for self-correcting behaviour, and pruning bad management practices that cause behaviour to deviate from objectives. However, your views are not uncommon, people like to hide their misbehavior, and it's always a challenge to root those people out.

Its not criticism that is any problem. Its going to press to try to force some change when you are not getting entirely your way. This is a bad thing. Correct answer if this person was seriously in the interest of Apple would be write letters to shareholders/board if management has ignore the concern.

This is, again, the view that the institution is always right, an outmoded and discredited viewpoint.
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