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Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

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Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#241

Post by chrsig »

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #146
mStreamTeam wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can get a real job instead of making products that prey on people with ADHD. There's no job shortage, so don't make excuses for them

If we didn't build and charge for our app then we can't continue working on it and improving. We enable many people to get support they wouldn't be able to otherwise and significantly broaden accessibility compared to medication and in-person therapy. We're not a non-profit but we do need to improve our model.

Posing the question: did you at all investigate the viability of a non profit organization?

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#242

Post by Notanothertoo »

levi-epstein wrote: post #135
jstx1 wrote: post #32

I was excited to try it and gave up during sign-up because there's no free option. The 7-day limited trial of the paid version isn't the same as a free tier.

A lot of work goes into building and continually improving a product like Inflow and we need to charge a subscription fee for it to be viable. We believe that being more affordable than other options which means many more people are able to access the support that they otherwise would not have access to.

yea but opt out auto annual renewal of 100$ is shady. Gtfo. You should let people actually trial the app or don't offer a trial. Also monthly subscriptions. If neither of those work then what value is our app actually offering?

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#243

Post by what_is_orcas »

samhw wrote: post #233
what_is_orcas wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an app that _for_ folks who aren't neurootypical, accessibility should be priority #1. That it's not does not inspire confidence and suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy, which might be great for VCs, but not for users, and without users, I wouldn't expect a lot of VC backing.

> suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? An exit strategy isn't, like, a particular type of business model that some businesses use. It's just a word for the founders' strategy with respect to exiting the business.

So, what I mean by "exit" strategy is that they're more interested in going public or being bought out than in providing long-term good (and sustainability). There's a different set of incentives in wanting to exit (high valuation, market competition, etc.) than there is with being a long-term viable, sustainable business (building a reputation, being effective, etc.). The former are a lot more common in SV (it seems to me), but the majority of businesses that survived the 90's and 00's are examples of the latter.

Real therapists operate without an exit strategy. A good therapist isn't building dependence in their clients.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#244

Post by Notanothertoo »

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #126
prionassembly wrote: post #21

I'd feel more comfortable if you had done some kind of double-blind testing with ADHD/non-ADHD and Inflow versus Garbled Inflow (just a bunch of features but no magic dust). Doesn't need to be publication quality.

We've actually done a study with a university in the US that has just been submitted to one of the main ADHD journals. It isn't double blind but it is a pre/post symptom and impairment study which is very encouraging. We hope to share a link once it is (hopefully) published.

A single study is worthless.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#245

Post by TeMPOraL »

samhw wrote: post #233
what_is_orcas wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an app that _for_ folks who aren't neurootypical, accessibility should be priority #1. That it's not does not inspire confidence and suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy, which might be great for VCs, but not for users, and without users, I wouldn't expect a lot of VC backing.

> suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? An exit strategy isn't, like, a particular type of business model that some businesses use. It's just a word for the founders' strategy with respect to exiting the business.

Of course it is. It carries an important implication that, to put it charitably, the owners will focus on growing and selling their company, at the expense of value provided to the users. This tends to make a startup, depending on the backbone of its founders and pressure from the investors, something between a suboptimal compromise from users' POV, and a legal pump&dump scheme.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#246

Post by djbusby »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #59
skeletron wrote: post #22

Many of the reviews of the Android app are quite critical of the trial and payment model, for example: > CAUTION: After the free trial period (7 days), they will charge for an annual subscription ($102.95 US). This is OPT OUT, not opt in. In other reviews they say they will offer a refund (I will update when/if I get one) but for an app for people with executive function issues, an opt out format seems shady. Either…

"but for an app for people with executive function issues, an opt out format seems shady" is so dead on. What an enormous red flag. Might as well come right out and say that they understand ADHD and plan to use its drawbacks to make money from people. Considering how desperate a lot of people are for treatment, this sounds like a great monetary investment for people with no conscience. This may be a bit harsh. I'm a…

Argg! I also have a thing I forgot to cancel last month! Did you get your Prime one done? I'm doing mine right now.

Edit: done! Thanks.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#247

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #199
crdrost wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider also “we only charge you at the end of the month if you actually used it” or so. Can be a much more difficult revenue model but user trust is way higher when you make that sort of commitment and if you are indeed struggling with getting user trust, it could be a lifesaver.

This is the only honest way to do automatic payments, and I think it should be a legal requirement for streaming services, gyms, and anything else that charges recurring fees and has the means to track usage. I would even be ok with "we'll charge you for this month, but since you didn't use it we will suspend your service and stop billing you" I don't know of any services that do this though. So I assume they are all…

> gyms

From my understanding, the profitability of gyms is actually dependent upon some sizable percentage of people paying for a membership and not using it. If that cohort didn't exist, membership fees would have to be much higher.

Software subscriptions are different though, as the variable costs are negligible: the cost associated with providing service to each new user is next to nothing.

Personally, I'd be way more likely to sign up for a paid subscription if I knew they would automatically stop charging me if/when I stop using the service.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#248

Post by chrsig »

colinplamondon wrote: post #56
d4mi3n wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t the cost, it’s the way folks with ADHD are being charged. The whole point here is to help folks who are having trouble remembering to do things. Regardless of the economics, the optics here make this seem like exploitation. Making this opt-in avoids a dark pattern. Folks with ADHD are often impulsive and strike while the iron is hot—if this has value people will opt-in.

Why are we holding this new startup to a standard we don't hold anyone else? 6 months from now when they have their economics figured out, cool, they can run that test. Generally, giving users a toggle to get reminded when a trial is about to run out will INCREASE conversion rates. That depends on the business, and is part of a pretty standard set of experiments you run post-launch. With your comments you're part HN…

> Is the most remarkable thing about a really cool CBT tool for ADHD really that they have a standard trial flow?

I don't know - the problem is that, as an adhd person, once I learn about their bad trial flow, I'm not continuing to learn anything else about it.

That's their problem, not mine.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#249

Post by n8cpdx »

BadCookie wrote: post #132
tonyarkles wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my diagnosis I discussed both pharmaceutical and therapy options with my psychiatrist. His take, which is definitely subject to his own biases, was "lots of my patients choose to do both therapy and pharmaceuticals, but after starting the drugs they kind of lose interest in the therapy part of things because the drugs work so well for most patients. Not all. Some have benefited tremendously from therapy."

Most people seem to think that medication for ADHD is great, but for my son, the side effects were unacceptable: nausea, vomiting, extreme irritability. If therapy is even an option, none of the medical professionals we’ve spoken to has offered it. Maybe it’s because he’s on the young side (7). Anyway, it’s frustrating that everyone sees medication as the answer when the side effects are so awful—but maybe our experi…

That sounds somewhat unusual, but side effects are a very individual thing. It might be you can't get a low enougb dose for your child. I'm a full, rather large adult, and I only need abouy 5-10mg of ritalin, and going above that is unpleasant. I'm sure I'd have been quite sick if I was taking that dose (5mg seems to be close to the minimum they'll do) at 7.

A lot of doctors start patients at crazy high doses (over 10mg) and a lot of patients do indeed benefit from 50+mg.

If medication isn't tolerated, starting therapy early seems like a great idea.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#250

Post by TeMPOraL »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #247
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the only honest way to do automatic payments, and I think it should be a legal requirement for streaming services, gyms, and anything else that charges recurring fees and has the means to track usage. I would even be ok with "we'll charge you for this month, but since you didn't use it we will suspend your service and stop billing you" I don't know of any services that do this though. So I assume they are all…

> gyms From my understanding, the profitability of gyms is actually dependent upon some sizable percentage of people paying for a membership and not using it. If that cohort didn't exist, membership fees would have to be much higher. Software subscriptions are different though, as the variable costs are negligible: the cost associated with providing service to each new user is next to nothing. Personally, I'd be way…

> Software subscriptions are different though, as the variable costs are negligible

Depends on the service. Many boast about their large or unlimited storage for user's data, but this part of their marketing relies on the assumption that almost nobody will actually use a noticeable amount of the offer.

It's similar to the dishonest, but sadly normalized practice of ISPs, where the bandwidth offered would be impossible to provide if a significant number of customers tried to use it at once.

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