Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD • Hacker News Board

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#231

Post by xdfgh1112 » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

vinodkd wrote: post #28

IndexCardBox wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering this is a post about mental health, can we please quit labeling being picky as OCD? OCD is a serious condition, not a "haha I'm picky" joke.

didnt mean it as a joke. I did not have another label for my pickiness as you call it. i'm still learning these terms via my child who has been diagnosed, but the thing that bothered me is that it was misaligned. i have similar issues with magazine stacks that are not aligned, for example. i thought that was what was called mild ocd, hence used the word. make what you will of that.

OCD sufferers prefer to call that OCPD. Being bothered by stuff like that is nowhere near as serious as real OCD which can be traumatic and life ruining.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#232

Post by danShumway » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

redmaverick wrote: post #159

skeletron wrote: post #22

Many of the reviews of the Android app are quite critical of the trial and payment model, for example: > CAUTION: After the free trial period (7 days), they will charge for an annual subscription ($102.95 US). This is OPT OUT, not opt in. In other reviews they say they will offer a refund (I will update when/if I get one) but for an app for people with executive function issues, an opt out format seems shady. Either…

>> After the free trial period (7 days), they will charge for an annual subscription ($102.95 US). This is OPT OUT, not opt in. This is the norm right. I don't know ANY app that is OPT IN after the initial trial period is done. This is the Industry Standard.

Industry Standard isn't marketed specifically to people with ADHD at the exclusion of everyone else. At the point where a product is targeted at people who struggle with this, and it's still not putting thought into how they'll react, something has gone very wrong.

Industry standards for media often don't included content warnings. However, if someone posts on HN that they're building a streaming service designed primarily for people with trauma, and they don't include content warnings in front of their shows, you'd probably have some questions -- because you expect them to know their audience. To me, this launch suggests that the founders either haven't spent much time thinking about how their process actually will work with their target audience or (much worse) that they did think about it and still decided that it would be OK.

It's just really tone-deaf to have a launch HN that spends all this time talking about how the intake process for people with ADHD is thoughtless or needlessly difficult, when their app's funding model is making the same mistakes and lacking the same affordances.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#233

Post by samhw » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

what_is_orcas wrote: post #180

sebisaacsinflow wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback. We're working on some potential solutions to this and in the meantime we refund everybody who requests one.

For an app that _for_ folks who aren't neurootypical, accessibility should be priority #1. That it's not does not inspire confidence and suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy, which might be great for VCs, but not for users, and without users, I wouldn't expect a lot of VC backing.

> suggests that you're going for an "exit" strategy

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? An exit strategy isn't, like, a particular type of business model that some businesses use. It's just a word for the founders' strategy with respect to exiting the business.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#234

Post by what_is_orcas » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #226

what_is_orcas wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but then isn't this just a "disability tax"? (I'm aware that the word disability is antiquated and not perfect here, but for the sake of being concise, this is what I wrote). The need for this app is a problem. Insurance should cover the cost of treatment (and insurance should be affordable and available; for transparency: I'm pro medicare for all, here in the US). Start ups have a bad habit of taking a systemi…

Most of the folks on this thread seem to be objecting to the opt-out nature of their subscription service. I agree with them. On the other hand, you seem to be objecting to the very nature of money being charged for this app or any other healthcare service? It's gross, and I do not love this aspect of capitalism. I agree with you to that extent. But -- again, without ditching capitalism entirely -- what's the alterna…

You're right, I take a more aggressive stance on this sort of thing than others might. I'm also known to say "if you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage you can't afford to do business" of many retail/service environments.

"But I need to make money, too" isn't an excuse. It wants to be, but it is not. I would agree that the biggest offender is the predatory model, but I would say that the way to do this _correctly_ is to do it free/OSS with a patreon. Let folks who use it pay what they think it's worth.

The problem is that the incentive systems don't align. Someone elsewhere mentioned that this seemed to build dependency in its users (an anti-pattern in therapeutics (and elsewhere, but let's be specific to therapeutics for now)). With something like Patreon, the incentives are much closer aligned: the app _has_ to do good in order to well, because otherwise nobody will pay for it.

Again, they (the developers) could also put their time & energy into enacting systemic change.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#235

Post by samhw » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

mStreamTeam wrote: post #202

samhw wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never proposed they make it free of charge. I said the best model for their community is free and open source. I ... they're the same picture ...

I can't believe I have to say it again. Do not quote me. This time you omitted the next sentence that ties those two ideas together. You're clearly malicious and cannot listen to simple personal requests. I hope you can become a better person in the future. Goodbye

I'm at an absolute loss here. You started off by saying that the company should adopt a free model. You've since spent several comments vaguely insinuating that you were saying something else, without explaining what that is. What's the point of this?

Also, if you're not trolling with your absurd histrionics about people quoting you, then, well, I wish you luck in the world.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#236

Post by danShumway » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

tgv wrote: post #77

endisneigh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of what you’re saying makes sense. If the product is amazing people will continue paying and attrition will be low, annual or not. Basically the model here is like a gym, where people buy things that they don’t use as much as the price implies or is simply ineffective. Given that the customers are executive function impaired, seems shady.

> or is simply ineffective And 7 days is really too short to notice a sustained effect.

This is a good point. There are a lot of reasons you might get a small boost of productivity after starting a new therapy approach.

7 days isn't enough time for the vast majority of people to know whether the app is doing anything at all for them.

"Spend a week playing with something new and interesting that you might just hyperfocus on, and then impulsively pay us for a year's access because this time you won't lose interest in two months" feels laser-targeted to prey on ADHD behaviors.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#237

Post by chrsig » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:29 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #186

I am supremely interested in this business idea. ADHD is an incredibly large population and frequently disadvantaged in ways they and others are incapable of seeing. As a point of comparison I have a son with severe dyslexia and another with severe ADHD. My son with dyslexia was completely illiterate until almost the 4th grade and now he is almost making a 4.0 in high school with ease. ADHD is by far the greater chal…

> I am supremely interested in this business idea. ADHD is an incredibly large population and frequently disadvantaged in ways they and others are incapable of seeing.

This reads....shitty. "I'm interested in business ideas for large frequently disadvantaged populations"... I mean...are you interested in ways to make money off cancer patients, too?

Stuff like this app needs to be part of a diverse treatment plan, not some profit center for an exploitative corporation.

> The last ADHD related thread I saw on HN was the worst shit show I have seen on HN filled with big tears and many narcistic people injecting unrelated defenses against personal attacks that didn't exist.

There's something a bit ironic about this statement...

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#238

Post by nonbirithm » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #52

Does therapy actually work? I’ve always been under the impression that it was mostly placebo, and that only medication produces meaningful results. Happy to be proven wrong though

From my experience, I have found that therapy is only as useful as the work you are willing to put into it. If you have trouble opening up, interacting with people in general or committing to changing yourself, your ultimate goals with therapy will become vague, and without well-defined goals the entire system falls apart.

I don't know what to feel when people around me say I ought to talk to a therapist, leaving it as the only possible option for my mental salvation or outright refusing to listen to me about certain topics by saying the therapist needs to hear it, not them, only for the therapist to say they don't know how to help me. That is because I went just because someone told me to, because they did not want to listen to me, so I'm not motivated enough to get the most out of each session.

I started going with the intention of receiving CBT and I'm not sure if what we do can even be called that anymore after all this time. About the only reason I see my therapist each week is to have one person who is willing to listen to me in person instead of zero, and nothing particularly changes as a result. If seeing someone in person each week who is actually willing to listen is all that prevents me from becoming depressed, then it is a net positive result, but it is not life-changing in any real regard because of my lack of motivation or inability to properly utilize therapy.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#239

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #169

> The average cost of an in-person ADHD CBT session in the US is $200-300 ($10k-$16k/year). This is not true at all. If anyone is considering ADHD therapy, please do not let such misleading figures dissuade you. For anyone with insurance, the average cost of a therapy session is often as little as a $15-25 copay. You could get 4-6 in-person, personalized therapy sessions with an experienced provider for the same pric…

YMMV; I have never successfully gotten ADHD CBT reimbursed by insurance. The $8700 is only for in network care and there are no reputable in-network providers that specialize in ADHD in my town.

I went to two in-network LMFTs that listed ADHD as a field they treated and they were complete shit. It was basic talk therapy with generic organizational suggestions like "have you considered keeping a todo list"

I went for 6 weeks with each just to make sure it wasn't just them establishing a baseline (and 6 weeks of copay was cheaper than a single visit to an out-of-network provider). In retrospect, the 6 hours of lost time was not worth it even if the visits had been free.

I have paid over $10k out-of-pocket in a single calendar year ($220 per session) to a therapist that actually helped and $0 was reimbursed by my insurance. I do live in an expensive area (SoCal) but not NYC expensive.

[edit]

None of this is saying I think the App from TFA will be useful; just refuting that everyone who is insured can get ADHD CBT treatment covered by insurance.

Re: Launch HN: Inflow (YC S21) – Self-help app for people with ADHD

#240

Post by beaconstudios » Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

octagons wrote: post #33

beaconstudios wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you might want to try Notion or Evernote something like that; externalised memory is generally served by note-taking apps. Roam is also good, if you don't like organising your notes hierarchically. Remembering to use it is not an issue of memory, but of habituation; there are decent habit-tracking apps like habitica to help with that. Of course, the first habit you'll want to build is the habit of using a habit track…

I was diagnosed with ADHD last year after suspecting it for some time. I used Notion for this exact reason, but ended up switching to Obsidian with much more success. Notion is a great app and I even had a pro subscription for a while, but the number of widgets and options and different ways of doing things made it too distracting for me.

I'm glad you found something that works for you! I haven't tried Obsidian yet, but I'm tempted to when I get a little time to try it out, because open-source is just inherently better.

[edit] just looked it up, I thought Obsidian was open source but apparently not. Disappointing.