Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

tandfonline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 231 posts

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#201

Post by rank0 »

chmod600 wrote: post #197
rank0 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do a quick search but I think common sense should suffice here. How did all the (meat eating) humans survive before b12 supplements were around? Animals surely do not receive supplements in the wild. In the factories is where they are deprived of their natural diet that would provide the b12.

I agree, but sometimes I hear other theories. One of the other comments said something about unsanitized water providing b12. In the past I've heard that just eating dirty fruit and vegetables had enough b12.

I suppose those theories are possible and I should do some research. The "normal" way to receive B12 was from livestock eating grass/vegetation that were covered in dirt. In that case, humans would indeed meet their B12 requirements from eating those livestock.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#202

Post by cutemonster »

User23 wrote: post #45
King-Aaron wrote: post #9

I'd say the first big thing to highlight is that correlation is not causation - you wouldn't want someone to take this study as proof that eating meat makes you less depressed. I would imagine that vegans (in particular vegans who chose their diet on ethical grounds) are overall more concerned about the state of the world around them - or are at least subjected to more of an echo-chamber effect from their peers - whi…

On the other hand, correlation is a consequence of causation. Pragmatically one can reach a plausible conclusion, despite a lack of positive verification. In my own experience, I can conclusively report that a high quality steak definitely improves my mood. Causation of emotional states is bafflingly complex, so it could be some hidden cause, but to my senses it's just that eating delicious meat feels good.

> eating delicious meat feels good

Not if you keep in mind that the animal you're eating likely got in effect tortured in an animal farm

And that eating meat speeds up climate change -- creates more violent storms and wildfires, and droughts and famines, and land conflicts and migration and wars.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#203

Post by rsj_hn »

User23 wrote: post #45
King-Aaron wrote: post #9

I'd say the first big thing to highlight is that correlation is not causation - you wouldn't want someone to take this study as proof that eating meat makes you less depressed. I would imagine that vegans (in particular vegans who chose their diet on ethical grounds) are overall more concerned about the state of the world around them - or are at least subjected to more of an echo-chamber effect from their peers - whi…

On the other hand, correlation is a consequence of causation. Pragmatically one can reach a plausible conclusion, despite a lack of positive verification. In my own experience, I can conclusively report that a high quality steak definitely improves my mood. Causation of emotional states is bafflingly complex, so it could be some hidden cause, but to my senses it's just that eating delicious meat feels good.

Yes, a good steak is wonderful, and I like the idea of meat as self-care. It resonates with the therapeutic society[1] and might be a good ad campaign for a beef board. I'd even buy a scented candle if it smelled like ribeye.

[1] https://www.nationalaffairs.com/public_interest/detail/the-t...

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#204

Post by alinhan »

This is a study where the majority of authors "have previously received funding from the Beef Checkoff, through the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association."

I have way more trust in nutritionfacts.org, which says the opposite:

"Studies on the emotional health and mood states of those eating plant-based diets suggest that eating less meat may not only be good for us physically, but good for us emotionally too."

More here:

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/depression/

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#205

Post by Sebb767 »

colordrops wrote: post #110
ngoel36 wrote: post #21

Disclosure: "This study was funded in part via an unrestricted research grant from the Beef Checkoff, through the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association."

If you want to see what appears to be a training ground for beef industry propaganda, check out /r/AntiVegan on Reddit. The vitriol is overpowering. I simply quoted a contradictory statistic from a paper a mod posted themselves that supposedly showed that not eating meat is unhealthy, and got banned. https://www.reddit.com/r/AntiVegan/ It's wild to me how angry and threatened people get by a personal choice to not ea…

> It's wild to me how angry and threatened people get by a personal choice to not eat something.

I think this is mostly a reaction because the other side gets very upset about people's choice to eat something.

A bit of it is surely the usual joking around, but no one is particularly upset about my personal dislike of eating fish, for example.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#206

Post by sundvor »

mikeg8 wrote: post #79
mmcgaha wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think hunters and people tend livestock eat less meat?

I hunt and raise livestock and I eat more meat than most, but I try to be very conscious of where my meat comes from and how it was produced. People that hunt/produce have much different relationships with meat. I think the comment above meant if more of the masses knew how terrible mass produced farms and slaughterhouses were, they would be more conscious of the chain too, hopefully making their buying decisions mor…

Kudos. Exactly. They'd be looking for eg free range whenever possible, and also possibly aim for a more balanced diet.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#207

Post by raxxorrax »

jjeaff wrote: post #161
hhs wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the first big thing to highlight is A second big thing to highlight is the study disclosure at the bottom of this article. Four of the six authors "have previously received funding from the Beef Checkoff, through the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association."

That is important to take note of. But also not disqualifying by itself. I would expect any researcher or scientist that has experience researching meat eating to be likely to get grants from meat related organizations.

It does pose questions about impartiality, especially for any form of statistical analysis. It just sadly is the reality of getting funding for certain studies.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#208

Post by igetspam »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #62
dahfizz wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would reverse the causation. People become vegans because they are highly empathetic and emotionally driven - this personality type also is more susceptible to anxiety and depression

Not necessarily. I was a localvore before I went vegetarian, and the place where I got my chickens, pork, lamb and beef was ~10 miles from my house. (I live in a hipster city.) I did this because I liked meeting my animals and watching them be butchered. (Industrial meat production is wildly, horrifically cruel by comparison.) Now I'm vegetarian because meat is just too effing expensive when purchased ethically. I ca…

Soy curls! I'm not even vegetarian and I love those things. (caveat: my wife is vegan and I don't cook so I'm mostly vegetarian by association.) They are so freaking versatile. We've used them replace almost everything meat like that I want to eat that can't be don't by using a beefless ground.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#209

Post by cutemonster »

cutemonster wrote: post #202
User23 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, correlation is a consequence of causation. Pragmatically one can reach a plausible conclusion, despite a lack of positive verification. In my own experience, I can conclusively report that a high quality steak definitely improves my mood. Causation of emotional states is bafflingly complex, so it could be some hidden cause, but to my senses it's just that eating delicious meat feels good.

> eating delicious meat feels good Not if you keep in mind that the animal you're eating likely got in effect tortured in an animal farm And that eating meat speeds up climate change -- creates more violent storms and wildfires, and droughts and famines, and land conflicts and migration and wars.

Hmm @User23, I didn't mean to sound grumpy. Most of my friends eat meat and my parents too. Just in case you happen to be a sensitive person, I didn't mean to be negative against you, sorry if what I wrote came across in that way

I like meat too btw (although I no longer eat it, unless it's about to be thrown away anyway)

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#210

Post by generalizations »

chmod600 wrote: post #180
Rantenki wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought you were kidding, but I checked, and sure enough at the bottom: "This study was funded in part via an unrestricted research grant from the Beef Checkoff, through the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association. The sponsor of the study had no role in the study design, data collection, data analysis, data interpretation, or writing of the report." Maybe not, but how likely is it that they'll continue funding more…

If this were real science, it wouldn't matter because anyone could repro the results. But almost all of this nutritional "science" is just people in white coats messing with statistics and sounding authoritative. Goes for the "meat is good" camp and the "meat is bad" camp. (My personal belief is that only a very small amount of meat is good for your body, but having more meat is good for your brain.)

As the paper described, all they did was pull available data from other studies. That's about as low a barrier to repro as you could wish - you could probably do it yourself.
Post reply on HN