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Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

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Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#161

Post by jjeaff »

hhs wrote: post #91
King-Aaron wrote: post #9

I'd say the first big thing to highlight is that correlation is not causation - you wouldn't want someone to take this study as proof that eating meat makes you less depressed. I would imagine that vegans (in particular vegans who chose their diet on ethical grounds) are overall more concerned about the state of the world around them - or are at least subjected to more of an echo-chamber effect from their peers - whi…

> I'd say the first big thing to highlight is A second big thing to highlight is the study disclosure at the bottom of this article. Four of the six authors "have previously received funding from the Beef Checkoff, through the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association."

That is important to take note of. But also not disqualifying by itself. I would expect any researcher or scientist that has experience researching meat eating to be likely to get grants from meat related organizations.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#162

Post by cupcake-unicorn »

I'm willing to guess that any minority is going to suffer more depression than the majority, in this case meat eaters vs non meat eaters, due to the social stigma. It gets tiring having people hassle you and ask you stupid questions about your lifestyle, eating habits, cultural background, sexual orientation, and so on, which leads to, guess what, more depression and anxiety.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#163

Post by istorical »

cyounkins wrote: post #83
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #23

How much faith do you have in nutrition science? How sure are you that they know all the vitamins, fatty acids, amino acids, etc that are important to your health? We know for sure that there are vitamins that it is pretty much impossible to get with a normal vegan diet (without either taking a supplement or consciously consuming certain foods to supplement) such as vitamin B-12. Other minerals such as iron are more…

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria but can be obtained through meat and animal products. Historically we got plenty through unsterilized water as well. It is really the only required supplementation for vegans. If you are into the science you may like NutritionFacts.org - Dr. Greger goes DEEP into the studies and science. I'm pretty sure he's done a video on forms of iron.

It seems as if you responded to someone saying "are you confident you know what components are needed and that all components have been identified?" with "one component we've identified is vitamin b12, it's possible to get it via blah blah blah".

Feels like sort of a non-sequitur?

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#164

Post by alwillis »

girvo wrote: post #103
papercrane wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soy curls are a product from Butler Foods. Not sure if there's a generic equivalent, I haven't found one. Not vegan, but I do try and limit my meat consumption and really love them. https://www.butlerfoods.com/soycurls.html

Yeah the generic version is TVP, textured vegetable protein (made from processed soy). It comes in all kinds too: like those curls, slices that are more like beef slices for stir-fry, and mince-like granules for making "mince"! Its cheap as, and at tonnes of asian supermarkets or vegan stores. Rehydrate with beef-style or chicken-style stock and you're off to the races. Some of my friends have started using it to sav…

TVP is made from soy isolates while Butler’s Soy Curls are made from whole soy beans.

The texture of soy curls is closer to seitan than anything else made from soy. I had bbq soy curls for dinner earlier tonight.

Apparently it’s possible to get a similar texture using tofu by freezing and thawing it twice: http://www.marystestkitchen.com/best-vegan-fried-chicken-glu....

I haven’t attempted this yet.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#165

Post by istorical »

Causal link or no causal link, this definitely lines up with what I've observed among people I've met. A lot of depressed and anxious folks that are vegan or vegetarian compared to the 'go to church twice a week and watch football' crowd.

But it very well may be an "I'm depressed / anxious, and somehow that is linked with me wanting to become vegetarian/vegan" rather than the other direction.

Either way, if I was very depressed or anxious and vegetarian or vegan, and I'd tried a lot of other interventions, I'd definitely consider the option of returning to meat like trying nutrient dense meats like organ meat (heart and liver are great) that are often thrown away or discarded because they are less marketable, or meats that are going to be trashed whether I ate them or not (expiring, or leftovers from someone else's meal? or some grocery store food donation program), and see if it gave me any respite.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#167

Post by seba_dos1 »

jdavis703 wrote: post #151
chinchilla2020 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know several vegans and none of them are particularly empathetic. Is this proven true?

It could also be your friends are more empathetic to non-human animals than they are to humans.

...which is a great way to become depressed and anxious, since what industrial food production does with animals can be horrifying.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#168

Post by seba_dos1 »

User23 wrote: post #45
King-Aaron wrote: post #9

I'd say the first big thing to highlight is that correlation is not causation - you wouldn't want someone to take this study as proof that eating meat makes you less depressed. I would imagine that vegans (in particular vegans who chose their diet on ethical grounds) are overall more concerned about the state of the world around them - or are at least subjected to more of an echo-chamber effect from their peers - whi…

On the other hand, correlation is a consequence of causation. Pragmatically one can reach a plausible conclusion, despite a lack of positive verification. In my own experience, I can conclusively report that a high quality steak definitely improves my mood. Causation of emotional states is bafflingly complex, so it could be some hidden cause, but to my senses it's just that eating delicious meat feels good.

> delicious

You got your cause right there in the open.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#169

Post by seba_dos1 »

kbelder wrote: post #131
toomim wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, without reading the article, I thought "correlation isn't causation" and clicked into the comments to see if anyone else who read the article thought so, too. And I see you at the top of the comments. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

Correlation tends to correlate with causation, though.

Inverse causation correlates with correlation just as well.

Re: Meat and mental health: Meat eaters suffer less depression, anxiety

#170

Post by cyounkins »

icey wrote: post #115

An anecdote: I have been 100% carnivore for the past two months. The last vegetable I ate was in August. I’ve eaten 10 grams of carbs in that time period (in the form of vitamin C tablets early on), and zero fiber. My anxiety levels are subjectively lower, I’ve had fewer instances of insomnia, I’ve lost 20lbs of water + fat weight while maintaining an active lifestyle (standing desk all day + running 20+ miles a week…

Zero fiber? No vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, or grains?

I'm truly glad you're feeling good but if you're really 100% meat I urge you to talk to your doctor about potential issues and tests for nutrient levels. Vitamin C and cholesterol are top of mind but I'm far from an expert. Blogging those numbers before/during this diet would be very interesting!

> The lack of fiber does make for some interesting digestion, but in general it seems I’m producing less waste.

If "interesting digestion" is constipation, that could be a warning sign. Insoluble fiber isn't digested so reduced fiber intake is expected to reduce fecal volume.

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