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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#221

Post by withinboredom »

ajay-b wrote: post #198
001Diana wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not “having your cake and eating it too,” it’s much more complex. It also is never a case of “the country wasn’t good enough to live in.” I would love to live in the USA. That is not where life took me. At its simplest Americans are not free to live anywhere in the world the way citizens of all other countries are (even Eritrea, the only other country that taxes it’s citizens based on citizenship, does not su…

But in this case, even though you were living abroad, you’re still a American citizen and required to pay taxes. It’s not America’s fault that you’re living abroad for a decade. Is your intention to stay there for life, and if so, just renounce your citizenship. If you’re not willing to contribute as a citizen, why remain a citizen?

Wow. I can’t wait to see what they do with the $0 tax I paid. It’s spending a lot more money validating that $0 tax, and I’m spending a lot more than $0, sharing information about my private life (more than I did as a US resident) to pay $0. I’m really curious what you’re expecting the $0 tax to contribute to?

But you asked, why remain a citizen? As a citizen, I can freely enter the US, even during a pandemic. When a relative dies, you want to go back and you shouldn’t have to worry about getting a tourist visa, you know? That’s not the only reason, but it’s a pretty big one.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#222

Post by VortexDream »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #192
ska wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just your paperwork. In many countries you'll be denied seemingly basic financial services by institutions because FACTA would make their paperwork too much hassle.

OK then she should just keep being an American. Right?

I'm wondering why you're being so judgmental of this woman. What offends you so much about her legitimate decision to do this? You might not agree with her reasons, but are you really in a place to decide that her feelings, frustrations and her decision are invalid and inconsequential? It's not like she's antivaxx. This doesn't hurt anybody. How about seeking to understand instead being so argumentative over nothing?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#223

Post by sterlind »

withinboredom wrote: post #218
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the concept of taxation of Americans abroad dates back to the Civil War period" I'm not surprised, but could you provide some references on this...I am curious to read.

Just guessing, but I assume the Union wanted to continue to tax the Confederates who no longer lived in the Union because even though the succeeded from the Union, they were still Union citizens by birth.

seems unlikely. the Union didn't recognize the legitimacy of Confederate secession (hence, you know, the war.) the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to rebel states, as an example. they may have had trouble collecting taxes, what with the bullets and all, but amending the tax code doesn't help that.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#224

Post by withinboredom »

sterlind wrote: post #223
withinboredom wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just guessing, but I assume the Union wanted to continue to tax the Confederates who no longer lived in the Union because even though the succeeded from the Union, they were still Union citizens by birth.

seems unlikely. the Union didn't recognize the legitimacy of Confederate secession (hence, you know, the war.) the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to rebel states, as an example. they may have had trouble collecting taxes, what with the bullets and all, but amending the tax code doesn't help that.

Someone actually expanded on it down the page as a way to punish deserters.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#225

Post by sterlind »

hbrav wrote: post #167
throw63738 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is good business for gov, so of course it fails. There is something similar that happens regularly. Perhaps look at gaining citizenship at country that allows only single citizenship. It should make American citizenship null and void.

Germany is such a country. However, as part of granting you citizenship they do a search for other countries that you have citizenship of. I believe they will not grant you German citizenship until you have relinquished your other citizenship. I suppose another test case would be if you were to apply for German citizenship following your unilateral renunciation.

If you had to give up any other citizenships first, then you'd be temporarily stateless. And then what if Germany decided not to make you a citizen after that? Where would they deport you to?

Statelessness exists, but the UN treats it as a human rights concern so I doubt Germany would impose it.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#226

Post by barrkel »

soperj wrote: post #169
nostrademons wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of them make more money abroad than they do in the U.S. Setting up foreign branches is critical for their ability to reach new markets. Most of these branches are setup by U.S. citizens or permanent residents who have a deep history with their U.S-based employer and often personal connections with the executives at the home office. It is much easier to retain and pay these people if the bureaucratic hoops for re…

Once they've set up the foreign branch, they don't really care if they retain them. Most foreign branches aren't staffed by Americans. This is also a 1 time thing in each country that they start a branch in, not an on going concern. >they will be less tempted to jump ship and set up competing businesses that jumpstart a foreign country's industry The number of instances of this happening has to be close to zero.

In my experience, something else happens - someone moves abroad to set up foreign office, then jumps ship to a competitor to set up a foreign office for them too.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#227

Post by 7steps2much »

sterlind wrote: post #225
hbrav wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is such a country. However, as part of granting you citizenship they do a search for other countries that you have citizenship of. I believe they will not grant you German citizenship until you have relinquished your other citizenship. I suppose another test case would be if you were to apply for German citizenship following your unilateral renunciation.

If you had to give up any other citizenships first , then you'd be temporarily stateless. And then what if Germany decided not to make you a citizen after that? Where would they deport you to? Statelessness exists, but the UN treats it as a human rights concern so I doubt Germany would impose it.

The way it works in Austria, another country that only allows single citizenship is as follows.

You apply for Austrian citizenship while you still have your original citizenship. Austrian authorities decide whether or not you should receive citizenship, *but do not grant it to you*

Instead they give you documents that basically say that you have an entitlement to Austrian citizenship the second you renounce all other citizenships, if possible. There are exceptions for some, none cooperative nations.

So if you are a US citizen you would basically have a document that says you are an Austrian citizen the second you renounce your American one. I imagine the Germany handles it similarly

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#228

Post by Mikap »

It is very well written and resonates with a lot of Americans emigrants. As a spouse and mother of American emigrants for now more than 20 years, I have seen the situation degrading year after year. Every administration made it more penalizing for American emigrants. Writing to representatives or going to Washington to bring awareness of our situation didn’t help. If you got an answer it was a standardized letter not addressing the issue.thank you!

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#229

Post by xunn0026 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #120
xunn0026 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, nowadays Australia won't even let people physically leave at all!

I thought leaving was easy, but returning was the complicated part.

Nope:

> If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#230

Post by xunn0026 »

pgreenwood wrote: post #197
xunn0026 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, nowadays Australia won't even let people physically leave at all!

You can leave at will if you're not an Australian citizen or a permanent resident. If you are, then you currently need an exemption, e.g for work or business, or you're going to live in another country.

Does this seem... reasonable? Citizens aren't allowed to leave unless they have 'compelling reasons' and provide evidence.

People used to escape communism for such reasons.

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