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Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

shkspr.mobi

341–350 of 417 posts

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Particularly with touchscreens, it's really easy to break settings or delete something if you're doing something fiddly. I think this is correct. Turning the steering wheel never randomly creates a bunch of new problems for the user that they don't understand. It works the same way every time over the course of the user's entire life. I've probably made millions of turns of a steering wheel and all it's ever done i…

> Turning the steering wheel never randomly creates a bunch of new problems for the user that they don't understand. Having seen the kind of situations (untrained) drivers get themselves into while looking at a complete loss of how to proceed, I would like to vehemently disagree. That's why most western countries have something that passes for "training" as an requirement to be allowed to drive. No such thing with co…

I do think consistency is also an important part of interface design, so I don't think GP is wrong to bring it up as something that modern software often fails at, but the type of consistency they're talking about isn't what I'm talking about with safety to experiment.

For me, a better car analogy would be something like the fact that your radio controls can't mess with your brakes. You don't have to worry that if you change your radio station that your car suddenly won't start. This means that you probably don't feel nearly as worried about messing with those controls in an unfamiliar rental car. The entertainment system is never going to brick your car and make it impossible to drive (well, in most cars it can't).

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That's still a kind of tortured analogy though, so I'll dispense with the analogies entirely and just talk technology. When I teach people how to use Git, some of the most important early commands I teach them after the basic data model are:

`git reflog`

`git reset `

`git rebase -i ` (and importantly, I wire this up to something other than Vim)

I have observed anecdotally that people who have a good grasp of `git reflog` are much more likely to experiment with branching strategies, rebases, and merges, and are much more likely to come up with creative ways to solve their problems. Why? Because they're no longer scared of blowing up their entire repo.

I used to leave those more "complicated" commands out of early conversations with people because I felt like I would be dropping too many concepts on them too quickly, but without that kind of confidence that says "I can undo any Git operation, swap my head to any reference, and reorder, merge and customize any set of commits from any branch", people treated Git more like a set of arcane symbols and they were scared to ever experiment or try to extrapolate to solve their problems, even when their problems could be solved using commands they already knew.

Git could be a lot better about this stuff; the lesson I take is that I want to have very clear designations between dangerous and safe operations, and I want my interfaces to teach people where the undo key is first.

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You can probably think of other Linux tools that demonstrate this issue as well. It took us a long time to get safety locks around `rm -rf /`. In some ways, the point of those safety locks isn't just to help protect the reckless people who do irresponsible things without thinking. It's also to give more confidence to people who are learning basic terminal commands/Bash that they're not going to accidentally mess up a pipe or regex expression and delete their entire hard drive if they try to experiment a little bit.

We can take that even a step further, one of the best things you can do if you're learning Linux is get a good, reliable hard drive clone pushing regularly to a backup. You'll be in a better position to learn how the low-level system works if you know in the back of your head that you can always just blow the entire thing a way and rewind back a few days whenever you want.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#342
Mistakes happen. What am I supposed to deduce from the fact that Amazon engineers didn't remove those URLs from the suggestion data? That Amazon engineers can't differentiate search from URL either?

This seems like a very quick conclusion from the author. You don't know how many people have typed `https://www.amazon.co.uk`. Obviously typing the `https://www.a` would only show those possible completions, but how many times has it been entered really?

Not that I think most users are particularly computer literate, this just seems like a very weird anecdote to use as basis for a "ah! see???" blog post.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#343
I wonder if this is entirely what it seems.

If I type www.i, I get links to specific products on Ikea.com. I assume what's happening is, someone finds a product on Ikea and wants to see if it's on Amazon, and instead of searching for the product name, they just copy and paste the URL.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't want the abstraction punctured to see the inner workings... > Anything less than that creates a Norman Door conflict, whereby their inner mental models conflict with the intended interaction (...) Here I disagree, because the underlying assumption is that those "intuitive" interfaces are exploiting an existing mental model of the users, like door handles in the physical world. This is not true, because c…

> and there is no obvious preexisting mental model shared by non-specialists Strong disagree. Looking at the URL bar in Firefox vs Chrome is a great example of how Chrome nailed an "obvious preexisting mental model shared by non-specialists". We can look at things like the design of door handles, and clearly see how the shape of the human hand influences the design. If we had tentacles, door handles probably would lo…

You didn't really make an argument for why "brains seem to have parts" leads to "Chrome's omnibar makes sense". The reason Chrome's design is "good"--which I put in quotes, as I absolutely agree that it is "destructive"--is because people are lazy: it is the same reason why co-mingled recycling is "good" and why a world in which trash and recycling were the same bin would be even better, and why a world in which trash, recycling, your toilet, and YOUR OUTGOING MAILBOX were magically all a single slot would somehow be the best thing ever and UX designers would shit themselves with glee over how clever they are for training users that there is a single hole that everything should go into and it is the job of an army of people on the other side of the hole to make that work most of the time... except for the occasional letter that gets recycled and the occasional empty box of cereal that gets mailed back to the cereal company :/.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#345
post #145

This is a good example of making the mistake of conflating implementation details and user interface design. Firefox always had two boxes: URL bar and search. One of the big changes Chrome made when it was born was to have the Omnibar, being of course one bar that does both. If you think about this as an engineer, Firefox's design decision makes sense. You don't want to accidentally leak things to a search engine. UR…

> IIRC one of the most frequently searched terms on Google is "facebook"

I wonder if this holds true for both PC and Mobile, because it is easier to perform a search and trust the search engine to deliver the link, rather than finish typing ".com".

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#346
post #230
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to disagree since I believe that people should have a basic knowledge of the tools they are using. I am not saying that the bar should be particularly high, but being able to differentiate where something is and searching for something is a realistic expectation. That being said, I think developers have made some things more difficult to understand than they should be. While people understand what an addre…

> believe that people should have a basic knowledge of the tools they are using The whole point of intuitive design is to realize that you shouldn't make your users "think", insofar as making effortful cognition (i.e., Kahneman's "Type 2" thinking). Good design should leverage built-in assumptions of how the world, per users' intuitive mental models, to create affordances that guide users to the desired interaction a…

I take a middle ground - I agree that intuitive design is good especially for the typical non-techy user, but I also love designs that marry that with expressing the truth of the underlying system and not getting in the way of people who do actually want to leverage their understanding of the conceptual model of a program for power use. Most UIs fail to achieve both, and end up either too dumb to be useful or too complex to be widely usable.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basic URL parts like (http/https)://(server)/(address) is not that much more complicated, is it really? Yes. http[s]://www.facebook.com/my/profile?token=goes_here&other_params and http[s]://evil.co/facebook.com/my/profile?token=goes_here&other_params are very different things , but naïvely presented the visual weight is not on the important parts.

+1 800 555-1234 and +1 900 555-1234 are also very different things, with one being toll-free and the other being pay-per-call, and people seem to be able to understand that

A lot of people don’t, I didn’t even know that 900 means that. But ignoring that, you’re able to verify that the person on the other line almost certainly isn’t who you intended by just having them say anything, whereas evil.co might look literally identical to Facebook. There are security and performance issues that are totally invisible to you when you use http vs https, and the errors you get aren’t just a “that number you dialed is unavailable” but instead some arcane issue about SSL certificates or something, which you didn’t know even existed, whose error page is designed to make you feel literally unsafe. The length of a phone number in a given locality is generally constrained, whereas URIs can be extremely long and complicated, and the effects of a different URI or query parameter are unbounded and differ from website to website based on no consistent pattern, and on top of that as you’re navigating a site you don’t explicitly interact with the URL at all whatsoever, whereas with phone numbers the input pretty much ends the moment you connect your call.

So yes, URLs are way more complex.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#348
post #23

Those closing lines are applicable to so many other things, I like it! - [Users/Drivers/Students] don't really understand [interfaces/traffic/life] - [Computers/infrastructure/schools] don't really understand [users/drivers/students] - [Big Data/City Planners/Education Dept.] assumes that [users/drivers/students] are behaving in semi-rational manner

The world is so poorly understood by everyone but in the end things are fine. Users don't fully understand UI but it doesn't matter because they make do. The majority manage to buy their product on Amazon just fine.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#349

This is because Google and Microsoft have confused the users by allowing them to type whatever into wherever and they just figure it out. Some would call that good UI - probably myself included - but it teaches bad behavior and makes people dumber by obscuring what things really are.

> but it teaches bad behavior I wouldn't call it bad behaviour. Why are the users behaving bad and not the interfaces? Computers are meant to serve users.

It's not bad behavior, its more unrealistic expectations. Google provides a magic box that does everything and works it out while every other bit of software presents constrained UIs which push the requirement of understanding on the user rather than the system.

The end game system for google is one where you just talk to it like a person and it does what you want without having to have any kind of training on the system.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1980's, taking away the 'choke' lever which assisted starting a car was seen by some as removing a critical control. Yet automatic chokes became standard, and today's drivers usually don't even know or care what a choke even is. Todays people have other things to spend their time learning. People of tomorrow may not need to know or care what the difference is between a search box and a URL bar. All they know i…

Users not knowing what a url bar even is will be actively dangerous when they've somehow managed to land on a fishing site though. I don't think that can be engineered away in any reasonable way soon, so saying they shouldn't need to know seems irresponsible to me

This is the only issue I see with the new bar. The system would work fine if it wasn't for malicious actors trying to pose as other sites. Some official documents give specific instructions to type the whole url and not to use google.
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