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Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

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Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#61

Post by ceejayoz »

iammisc wrote: post #56
happytoexplain wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's charitable. He was mocked (unjustly, as all presidents are), but criticized (justly) for taking simple observations (UV kills the virus, disinfectant kills the virus) and extrapolating medically in a way that the president should not do in a public statement, and that's even regardless of the sloppiness of his descriptions.

Trump was not just mocked unjustly... words were inserted into his statement by major, reputable news sources, such as the New York Times, which was one of the first to begin using the word 'bleach' (which is actually dangerous to inject) instead of the stated word 'disinfectant' (which is non-specific enough to be less dangerous). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/opinion/coronavirus-bleac... IMO, this is incredibl…

They'd just been discussing bleach and isopropyl alcohol specifically. There's a pic of the slide, which states "COMMONLY AVAILABLE DISINFECTANTS (Bleach & Isopropyl Alcohol) work to kill the virus:: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AA47/production/...

Antibiotics are not disinfectants. Both kill bacteria, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#62

Post by happytoexplain »

adflux wrote: post #59
happytoexplain wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely (maybe never?) saw any journalist say that all ivermectin is horse medicine. However, people did take horse medicine because of the similarly irresponsible use of ivermectin as another weird political side-taking thing, the same way people bought UV products to use on themselves or ingested disinfectant. So, I think the criticism is mostly fair.

Bunch of articles on CNN... https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/21/us/mississippi-poison-con... for instance.

I'm aware of this article. She says "they're taking something called Ivermectin, which is an anti-parasite drug for horses", which isn't the whole story, but is also a reasonable sentence, since they were in fact taking a horse medicine called ivermectin and the same article explicitly states that there are human formulations and you can take those if your doctor prescribes them. So, I think it's unfair to use this as evidence of your assertion, or as rationale for the broader, usually politically-motivated bitterness about the media. I'm sure you could find some example of an article I haven't seen that committed the sin you claim, especially from somewhere as biased as CNN, but I would only have to take back the "maybe never?" part of my statement, and it may reasonably still stand.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#63

Post by mercy_dude »

gjulianm wrote: post #16
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Lung sunburn! Pardon me while i go scream for a minnit on that thought. I'd rather smoke oak again. Once unsquicked; it sounds like it might be a little better than ventilator damage and is a lot easier to control so that "burn" shouldn't actually happen. To kick off the flamewar: is discussing any treatment but vaccines still == "spreading anti-vax misinformation"?

> To kick off the flamewar: is discussing any treatment but vaccines still == "spreading anti-vax misinformation"? No, only if the discussions on other treatments are done without misinformation and some basis on science. For example, it would be good if you didn't say things like "it sounds like it might be a little better than ventilator damage" when there's no data to back that up, and there's a major difference:…

> No, only if the discussions on other treatments are done without misinformation and some basis on science.

And who defines what is misinformation?

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#64

Post by s1artibartfast »

happytoexplain wrote: post #18
mercy_dude wrote: post #7

Not to start a political off topic war, but the then sitting president of the US was heavily mocked for suggesting treatment options with UV be evaluated. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/health/sunlight-coronavir...

That's charitable. He was mocked (unjustly, as all presidents are), but criticized (justly) for taking simple observations (UV kills the virus, disinfectant kills the virus) and extrapolating medically in a way that the president should not do in a public statement, and that's even regardless of the sloppiness of his descriptions.

Not a Trump fan, but having previously heard of deep tissue UV treatments, I thought they were completely reasonable questions.

It is interesting that so many people are divided on the president asking medical questions in the public setting.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#65

Post by s1artibartfast »

ceejayoz wrote: post #61
iammisc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump was not just mocked unjustly... words were inserted into his statement by major, reputable news sources, such as the New York Times, which was one of the first to begin using the word 'bleach' (which is actually dangerous to inject) instead of the stated word 'disinfectant' (which is non-specific enough to be less dangerous). https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/opinion/coronavirus-bleac... IMO, this is incredibl…

They'd just been discussing bleach and isopropyl alcohol specifically. There's a pic of the slide, which states "COMMONLY AVAILABLE DISINFECTANTS (Bleach & Isopropyl Alcohol) work to kill the virus:: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AA47/production/... Antibiotics are not disinfectants. Both kill bacteria, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

Isopropyl alcohol is a disinfectant with many other other medical uses. e.g. wound care, skin disinfection.

Bleach (Sodium hypochlorite) is also medically used to kill pathogens during root canal procedures.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#66

Post by gjulianm »

mercy_dude wrote: post #63
gjulianm wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To kick off the flamewar: is discussing any treatment but vaccines still == "spreading anti-vax misinformation"? No, only if the discussions on other treatments are done without misinformation and some basis on science. For example, it would be good if you didn't say things like "it sounds like it might be a little better than ventilator damage" when there's no data to back that up, and there's a major difference:…

> No, only if the discussions on other treatments are done without misinformation and some basis on science. And who defines what is misinformation?

Well, it's pretty easy to spot which information is not exactly right, what is unknown, and what is outright false.

It's not that difficult. Somehow the misinformation discussion gets derailed into "but what is actually the truth" empty debates, when the misinformation we are discussing is as stupidly false as "COVID is fake" or "vaccines don't work" for example.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#67

Post by ceejayoz »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #65
ceejayoz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd just been discussing bleach and isopropyl alcohol specifically. There's a pic of the slide, which states "COMMONLY AVAILABLE DISINFECTANTS (Bleach & Isopropyl Alcohol) work to kill the virus:: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/AA47/production/... Antibiotics are not disinfectants. Both kill bacteria, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

Isopropyl alcohol is a disinfectant with many other other medical uses. e.g. wound care, skin disinfection. Bleach (Sodium hypochlorite) is also medically used to kill pathogens during root canal procedures.

Yes. There's a reason we don't nebulize them to deal with respiratory viruses, though.

https://xkcd.com/1217/

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#68

Post by mizzack »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it also happens to lower blood pressure which is the condition it was originally developed to treat. So if you have high but not "give this dud an Rx" high blood pressure, want Viagra and your doctor is a bro...

Sure. They were able to demonstrate to the FDA's satisfaction that it had a beneficial use outside the original intent of developing the drug. That's not unusual, but there's also a procedure you go through. The FDA specifically warns against using ivermectin to treat COVID. So does its manufacturer ( https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use... ). Comparing the two scenarios is silly.

Merck is expecting to rake in billions on sales of molnupiravir. Ivermectin is off patent.

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#69

Post by h2odragon »

hammock wrote: post #45
h2odragon wrote: post #2

Lung sunburn! Pardon me while i go scream for a minnit on that thought. I'd rather smoke oak again. Once unsquicked; it sounds like it might be a little better than ventilator damage and is a lot easier to control so that "burn" shouldn't actually happen. To kick off the flamewar: is discussing any treatment but vaccines still == "spreading anti-vax misinformation"?

>Lung sunburn! Pardon me while i go scream for a minnit on that thought. Ever thought about chemo or radiation therapy?

My lungs itch already. "sunburn itch" and glow ... ugh

Re: Harnessing the benefits of UVA light treatment in Covid-19 patients

#70

Post by rubyist5eva »

rbanffy wrote: post #52
rubyist5eva wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's comparing the light to the disenfectant, and intrigued by the idea of "injecting" the light to do the same job that a disenfectant does on a surface. "so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of *the light*, the way *it kills it in one minute*." I mean, the comprehension here is not that difficult. Maybe you need to brush up o…

"And then I see the disinfectant" is a very strange construction to refer to the effect of light, but you are entitled to "your truth" it seems, at least according to the current doublethink norms the GOP follows.

Not a republican, but I find the insult ironic because "your truth" is something that radical liberals use to justify their own doublethink.
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