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Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

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Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#121

Post by xyzelement »

3np wrote: post #44
rosseloh wrote: post #35

On phone support calls I usually can't even get people who know what a URL, URL bar, or even a search bar, is in the first place. "The box at the top where you type in websites you want to go to." "What are you talking about? I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. I just click my facebook icon and it comes up!" These people get all sorts of confused when something happens in their browse…

> I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. This learned helplessness scares me a bit. It's like the willingness to comprehend stops at "tap". "What are you talking about, 'steering wheel'?! I'm not a greasemonkey, are you talking about the thing I turn to make the car turn?" Not knowing is one thing, refusing to take in any new knowledge is another.

> This learned helplessness scares me a bit... Not knowing is one thing, refusing to take in any new knowledge is another.

As a matter of personal philosophy, I agree - but on the level of "empathy for users" this misses the mark pretty widely.

The 'steering wheel' analogy is not applicable (but funny!) because unlike computers, everyone who drives has been licensed so there's a baseline level of education that isn't there for computing. Also, most people (at least in the US) grew up around cars, so you expect a 20 year old and a 70 year old to grasp what a steering wheel is. But likely the people you are making fun of here did not grow up with computing. They are older folks to whom the computer was presented as a way to solve some specific problem (eg: a series of clicks so I can zoom with the grandkids) rather than a general platform that you perceive it as.

You can still say "well, there's a computer now in your life so you should learn about that" and again personally I agree, but - you gotta admit there are things in your life that you could go deeper on but you simply aren't comfortable or interested in doing so. For example, do you know the anatomy of every muscle in your body? Are you perfectly comfortable with public speaking? Are you able to articulate the nuances of policy difference between two local politicians running for office in your area? These are examples of things that you come in contact with on daily basis, and (if you are like most people) you probably did not go as deep in on as you could (and arguably should). Even if you happen to be good at these specific things you can get the larger point that people don't and can't go "deep" on everything they encounter. It may seem weird to you that to someone that thing is their computer, but those people may know things that you don't, also.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#123

Post by coldpie »

dylan604 wrote: post #116
coldpie wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree, but at the same time I find anecdotes like this comment elsewhere in this thread[1] compelling. It may be we're just wrong and there really is a better way to do it, I've certainly been wrong about plenty of other things. Dunno. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28864722

My counter to that is that if you think you are submitting a URL to go to a website but instead that data is sent to 3rd party which allows them to continue their tracking of everything you do, then this is bad. Be upfront and clear with your users. If you are sending data to a 3rd party in a way that is not 100% obvious, then it's bad UI leaning towards dark patterns. If you are a UI dev and it never occurred to you…

I think you will find you are in a tiny minority. Most people don't care about that, and you have a long uphill battle to convince them they should, especially if they find this new experience more useful. Legislation may be a way to solve that problem, but we've long left discussing the URL bar at that point.

Edit: Also I genuinely don't think collecting end-user data is the primary goal of the Chrome team with this change, although I agree it's a likely side-effect. I think they are trying to create a better end-user experience, even if you and I don't feel that it is better for us (nerds) in particular :)

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#124

Post by lowlevel »

efitz wrote: post #53
dylan604 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure whether it's good or bad, It's bad, very very bad

If it’s Google doing something to try to change the internet, it approaches certainty that it’s bad, whatever “it” is.

I believe the word you're looking for is 'evil'.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#125

Post by handrous »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #89
JohnWhigham wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get old and obstinate. It's sad but at the end of the day, they choose to be like this.

I promise you it is younger people too. I train bank workers from freshly minted tellers to longtime officers, none of them can navigate to a URL unless it is a clickable hyperlink. The URL is one of the most foundational elements of internet usage, it is the way to get directly to where you want to go. Having a map is nice, but don't you need to know how to walk in order to get where you are going? Heck, there have…

> Heck, there have recently been articles about STEM students that do not know how to work with a basic file directory.

File directories, and the filesystem generally, confuse the hell out of the vast majority of computer users. We nerds forget this stuff because at age 12 we really gave a shit about it and took the time to internalize what it all means, and it's been second nature ever since, but most people haven't had the "a-ha" moment we did about it, so far back we've almost forgotten we needed an "a-ha" moment for something so "simple and obvious".

We get that this over here and that over there "are" the same thing, but that neither "is" the thing it's representing, which may also be represented entirely differently over in this other place. When we search in a file explorer window and it "becomes" something totally different, we get what's happened and that nothing's "gone anywhere". Normal people don't.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#126

Post by lnx01 »

HelixEndeavor wrote: post #72
3np wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm computer illiterate, I can't learn any of this fancy tech stuff. This learned helplessness scares me a bit. It's like the willingness to comprehend stops at "tap". "What are you talking about, 'steering wheel'?! I'm not a greasemonkey, are you talking about the thing I turn to make the car turn?" Not knowing is one thing, refusing to take in any new knowledge is another.

As self-driving cars come closer to reality, I fear your hypothetical will eventually become a real conversation someone will have to unironically have.

I have no idea how to shoe a horse.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#128

Post by goohle »

shadowgovt wrote: post #71
Spivak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good point to bring up despite it being absurd. It's not that current trends in UX hide "what things really are" because we all decide what the metaphors are so much as current UX trends don't teach users the vocabulary we use to talk about the parts of a UI. You literally just have to know what a "search bar" is -- nothing is ever going to tell you. There's no text on the screen that says "Search Bar." The…

Correct. And decades of research have strongly suggested there's an upper limit to how much you can teach the average user. Remember: XEROX PARC's GUI breakthrough was "What if we make working on a computer feel like pushing stuff around on an office desk." "Educating the user" required walking three-quarters of the way to what they were already familiar with. Instead of trying to teach users how a search bar is diff…

Yeah, but keyboard has so many keys, which looks too similar and act in similar way. Why not to free user from typing? Just make one big button, called «Home», which will navigate user to Start of Internet, where he can select the site instead of searching it.

Moreover, most of the time users are just watching video, so why not to launch a video stream right after powering of the device? Why we need to confuse user with these buttons and Internet at all?

Moreover, user are watching video to satisfy their hunger for new, to feel good. Why not just to produce a chemical which make the same when consumed? Or just plant electrodes into brain, which is much safer. Then, without burden of these users, we will able to use a browser with separate URL and search bars, which is good for work performance.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#129

Post by Jerrrry »

windowsrookie wrote: post #106
jabroni_salad wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I promise you it is younger people too. I train bank workers from freshly minted tellers to longtime officers, none of them can navigate to a URL unless it is a clickable hyperlink. The URL is one of the most foundational elements of internet usage, it is the way to get directly to where you want to go. Having a map is nice, but don't you need to know how to walk in order to get where you are going? Heck, there have…

I've actually been hearing and interesting theory that the younger generation is becoming even more computer illiterate than the generation before them. The younger generation was raised on iPads and iPhones where everything is easy to use and "just works". They've never had to do anything beyond tap the icon for the App they want. Edit: Was going to talk about that same article about File directories.

This is true, the ease of use and proliferation of simplified and straightforward user interface conventions has had the adverse effect of making everyone born after 1998 practically unable to use a computer outside of the 4 major websites and apps.

Re: Every search bar looks like a URL bar to users

#130

Post by frosted-flakes »

soylentcola wrote: post #101
rspeele wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and even if you know how, it might be worth the extra cost to just pay someone to do it faster on those rare occasions) Going off on a tangent: I thought that this would be the case when I switched to changing my own oil -- if I was feeling lazy, I could always have the shop do it. But I found out right away that when the local quick-change place does it, they tighten the drain plug and oil filter to roughly a zil…

I just stopped bothering when it got harder to access the filter/drain and I moved to the city where I park on the street. I'm much less interested in farting around under the car, getting messy, and spending a half hour or more to drain the oil, replace the filter, and refill. At some point I just decided it was worth the extra cost to be in and out quickly. And honestly, when you add up the cost of replacement filt…

Top-side filters and oil extraction pumps make oil changes almost effortless. The biggest problem for me is disposing of the oil. There are several vehicles in my family, and the old oil just collects in jugs by the garage door. The nearest hazardous waste centre at the landfill will only accept two jugs at a time, and they won't take 5 gallon buckets at all. They will not accept 10 jugs (<2 years' worth), let alone 30. It's like they want me to pour it down the drain or something!
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